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ESL forum > Grammar and Linguistics > Using the past Tense with Rather????    

Using the past Tense with Rather????



Nebal
Lebanon

Using the past Tense with Rather????
 
Hello dear teachers,
 
I have a big wonder and need your wise explanations.
It happened that I was surfing the net and came across the following grammatical issue and got confused.It �s quoted.
 
�I would rather you did something�. This is not a past tense.

When you want somebody to do something, you can say �I�d rather you did something�:
�Shall I stay here?� �I�d rather you came with us.�
�Shall I tell them the news?� �No. I�d rather they didn�t know.�
In this structure we use the past (came, did etc.), but the meaning is present or future, not past.
Compare:
� I would rather cook the dinner now.
� But- I would rather you cooked the dinner now. (not �I�d rather you cook�)
The negative is �I�d rather you didn�t��:
� I�d rather you didn�t tell anyone what I said about English Grammar.
Guys, I need to know to what extent the pre-mentioned grammatical structure is true???? Why????
 
Thanks a lot!!!!!!!
Hugs,
Nebal
 
P.S. Sorry for including this here, but don´t want to start another thread. The following is Pinar´s answer to your birthday wishes.
 
"Hello my dear Friends...Hug
I would like to say "thank you" for making my day more beautiful and meaningful.
Every year,my esl family is getting bigger and I am glad I have meet with these people.
You are the ones that make such days special.
I know that you wouldn �t miss this occasion today and that �s why I popped in. Believe me I miss you so much and I am trying to catch up as much as I can even though I am not around.)
You are always in my mind and heart.
I owe you so much for your friendship and professionality.It would be such a pity if I missed this friendship.
I am speechless now as I was last year.It was my first international birthday last year:)))
That feeling was awesome..Touching,encouraging,lovely,friendly.....
I love you all my friends.
I blew the candles for all of you and your pieces are still waiting for you.
"May all your wishes come true..." This is the only thing that I can say to these adorable people.
Thank you,thank you..
HUgs and lots of love from the bottom of my heart..
PInar..HeartHeartHeart"
 
 
 

3 Jan 2010      





anitarobi
Croatia

Hi, dear Nebal!
It �s expressing wishes using the unreal past tense. To make things more simple (I hope), when you want to express something you only wish for in English (I �d rather, I wish, if only, etc.), but it �s not real, you actually use the past tense for sth you wish for now. It �s connected to conditionals. Some languages, like Spanish, have the subjunctive to express unreal situations, wishes, etc. whereas English just moves along the timeline (it �s like travelling backwards in time - to say what you wish for now, use the past)
 
  • I wish I had more money (=but I haven �t)
  • She wishes she was beautiful (= but she �s not)
  • We wish we could come to your party (but we can �t)
  • examples taken from http://www.edufind.com/English/Grammar/IF10.cfm

    3 Jan 2010     



    niacouto
    Portugal

    Hi dear Nebal,

    �I would rather you did something�. I agree that this is not a past tense, as in fact it isn �t: it is the subjunctive. And it refers to near future time.

    I suppose the grammar structure is true. I �ve searched for a suitable explanation in several grammars, but none of them is clear enough Unhappy

    In the previous sentence what you are saying is equivalent in meaning to: �I would prefer you to do something �, and here you are clearly referring to present or future.

    I hope this may help you. Butterfly HugHugs

    3 Jan 2010     



    Damielle
    Argentina

    Dear neby, here you are Michael Swan �s explanation,

     
    We can use would rather to say that one person would prefer another or others to do something. We use a special structure with a past tense.
     
    would rahter + subject+past tense
     
    I �d rather you went home now.
    Tomorrow �s difficult. I �d rather you came next week.
    My wife would rather we didn �t see each other anymore.
    "Shall I open a window?" "i �d rather you didn �t"
     
    A present time is sometimes used in this structure (e.g. I �d rather you go home now), but this is unusual.
     
    To talk about past actions, a past perfect tense is possible.
     
    I �d rather you hadn �t done that
     
    However, it is more common to express this kind of idea with wish.
     
    I wish you hadn �t done that
     

    3 Jan 2010     



    JulietaVL
    Mexico

    Clear and good explanations, thank you all ! Approve

    3 Jan 2010     



    bamarcia
    Brazil

    Clear explanations indeed.
    Domnitza has a very good worksheet explaining its use too. Hope it �s useful.
    http://www.eslprintables.com/printable.asp?id=60708#thetop

    M�rcia
    PS: A wonderful year to everybody!!!

    3 Jan 2010     



    tahriali
    Tunisia

    Hi Dear Colleagues; Sorry I think the notions of �tense � and �time � are a little bit confusing
    here are the common uses of �would rather �

    1. INTERROGATIVE: (would rather + bare infinitive)

    What would you rather do, eat here or eat out ?

    2. NEGATIVE/ affirmative (same subject): would rather + bare infinitive

    I �d rather not say anything else or I will get very angry.

    I �d rather fish than hunt.

    I �d rather not listen to your words

    This structure is used to express preference

    3. INTRODUCING A NEW SUBJECT.: would rather + simple past tense

    I �d rather you went accompanied than alone.

    I �d rather you didn �t come home too late.

    The simple past tense, here, is used as an �unreal past �

    UNREAL PAST

    (from: english.baladre.org/sedaviwebfronthadbettergrammar.htm)

    The past tense is sometimes used in English to refer to an �unreal � situation. So, although the tense is the past, we are usually talking about the present, e.g. in a Type 2 conditional sentence:

    If an elephant and a mouse fell in love, they would have many problems.

    Although fell is in the past tense, we are talking about a hypothetical situation that might exist now or at any time, but we are not referring to the past. We call this use the unreal past.

    Other situations where this occurs are:

    • after other words and expressions like if (supposing, if only, what if);
    • after the verb to wish;
    • after the expression I �d rather..

    Expressions likeif �

    The following expressions can be used to introduce hypothetical situations:
    - supposing, if only, what if. They are followed by a past tense to indicate that the condition they introduce is unreal:

    • Supposing an elephant and a mouse fell in love? (= but we know this is unlikely or impossible)
    • What if we painted the room purple? (= that would be very surprising)
    • If only I had more money. (= but I haven �t).

    These expressions can also introduce hypothetical situations in the past and then they are followed by the past perfect.

    Examples:

    • If only I hadn �t kissed the frog (= I did and it was a mistake because he turned into a horrible prince, but I can �t change it now.)
    • What if the elephant had trodden on the mouse? (She didn �t, but we can imagine the result!)
    • Supposing I had given that man my money! (I didn �t, so I �ve still got my money now.)

    The verb to wish

    The verb to wish is followed by an �unreal � past tense when we want to talk about situations in the present that we are not happy about but cannot change:

    • I wish I had more money (=but I haven �t)
    • She wishes she was beautiful (= but she �s not)
    • We wish we could come to your party (but we can �t)
    When we want to talk about situations in the past that we are not happy about or actions that we regret, we use the verb to wish followed by the past perfect:
    • I wish I hadn �t said that (= but I did)
    • He wishes he hadn �t bought the car (= but he did buy it.)
    • I wish I had taken that job in New York (= but I didn �t, so I �m stuck in Bristol)

    NOTE: When we want to talk about situations we are not happy about and where we want someone else to change them, we use to wish followed by would + infinitive:

    • I wish he would stop smoking. (= I don �t like it, I want him to change it)
    • I wish you would go away. (= I don �t want you here, I want you to take some action)
    • I wish you wouldn �t squeeze the toothpaste from the middle! (= I want you to change your habits.)

    I �d rather and it �s time...

    These two expressions are also followed by an unreal past. The verb is in the past tense, but the situation is in the present.

    When we want to talk about a course of action we would prefer someone else to take, we use I �d rather + past tense:

    • I �d rather you went
    • He �d rather you called the police
    • I �d rather you didn �t hunt elephants.

    NOTE: the stress can be important in these sentences, to show what our preference is:

    • I �d rather you went = not me,
    • I �d rather you went = don �t stay
    • He �d rather you called the police = he doesn �t want to
    • He �d rather you called the police = not the ambulance service

    Similarly, when we want to say that now is a suitable moment to do something, either for ourselves or for someone else, we use it �s time + past tense:

    • It �s (high) time I went.
    • It �s time you paid that bill.
    • Don �t you think it �s time you had a haircut?

    3 Jan 2010     



    yanogator
    United States

    Just so you �re clear, Niacouto is correct that it isn �t the past tense. It has the same form as the past tense. What Tahriali posted is good, except where it says that these are the past tense, rather than that they have the same form as the past tense. Understanding that makes the whole question a little easier to deal with (since the situation is actually present or near future, which seems to have been the confusion at the start).
     
    Bruce

    5 Jan 2010