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ESL forum >
Ask for help > adjective or noun
adjective or noun
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lizsantiago
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adjective or noun
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in the sentence: the piece of cake was delicious.
cake is an adjective or a noun and why? |
4 Mar 2011
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htunde
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Hi,
It is a noun.
The phrase �piece of cake � is also a
noun phrase and both parts of it piece
and cake are also nouns
because it is a possessive form - something
of something. (Like top of the
mountain or level of the sea.)
All of these answer to the question of WHAT.
And you can substitute them with the pronoun IT.
Hope
it was helpful,
T�nde |
5 Mar 2011
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moravc
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I believe it is a noun. We usually follow this "pattern" --> "noun1 of noun2" = "A of B"
bottle of water, cup of tea, drop of water, piece of music (if you want to use an adjective ->musical work)
in some cases we may change the "second noun" into an adjective, the pattern is then:
"adjective (derived from noun2) + noun1" = "B-- A" or "B�s A" or in some cases "B A"
or we may use the possessive case - Linda�s house = the house of Linda
tail of a cat = cat�s tail
woman of importance = is similar to = an important woman
president of the United States of America = American president
The pattern "B A"
Adjectivized nouns: computer programme, shoe shop, Paris University, backseat driver, Sunday school, home schooling, water cooler, air conditioning, traffic lights, tea cup, bed linen, computer expert,
song of a bird = a bird song (not bird�s song)
in some cases it is fixed, we say the mouse trap (=adjective + noun). What kind of trap? Mouse!
I have never heard "the trap of a mouse" or "mouse�s trap"
... Maybe it would be ok to say a trap for mice...?
This topic is extremely interesting... I believe the phrases are fixed, so you may say B�s A or A of B or B A with SOME words only... why? I dunno...
lawn mower, garage door, coffee pot - adjectivized nouns seems to be used with "non-living" things
possessive case �s - with people or animals - student�s book, cat�s eyes
of - + thing or person - eyes of a tiger, the eyes of Montezuna, the eye of a tornado
of phrases sounds old-fashioned in some cases or poetic - remains of the day, memories of my childhood ...
bottom of the page, family business, front door, fun fair, key hole, magic power, household numbers, mass media, mineral water, orange juice, patient waiting, top gun, toy store, toy car, twin brother, ...
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5 Mar 2011
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Olindalima ( F )
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MHO
Moravc could �t have explained ir in a better way
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5 Mar 2011
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Jayho
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More advanced grammar references will refer to this (noun + of) + noun as a partitive (meaning divided into parts) . This is where you talk about a quantity of something using a partitive structure (a phrase made up of a noun followed by of) before the noun e.g. piece of cake, slice of bread, pinch of salt etc (but can also include many, less and some).
There is not much about it on the internet but this link will give you an overview here. Plus, there is an interesting discussion here . There are some basic WSs here .
A few of my advanced books explain it clearly, particularly Celce-Murcia�s "The Grammar Book: An ESL/EFL Teacher�s Course" but most of my intermediate books don�t even touch on this structure hence the confusion among many. So, understanding it is no piece of cake by any means. |
5 Mar 2011
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moravc
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Thanks Jayho! Really interesting!
Is there any rule when we can or can �t use "of"?
It seems to me it is a matter of fixed expressions...
I have heard about a book OF spells, but never about a spell book, although it seems to be used (a spellbook)... It is not the same as the spelling book :-D of course
how about:
kitchen corner = corner of the kitchen?
There is a pink flower in the kitchen corner.
= There is a pink flower in the corner of the kitchen.
Right?
Do we have to use our sixth sense to distinguish whether we can use "of" or not? :-D
the ash tray is not the same as "the tray (full) of ash"
the sands of time but the time machine
(not time sands , machine of time)
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5 Mar 2011
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Jayho
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... let me just consult my book of tricks ...
Ok, I�m back.
Celcia Murcia doesn�t address your question. However, 2.211 of Collins Cobuild English grammar states:
a) that of is needed in every case but that sometimes partitives can be used without of when it is obvious what you are talking about e.g. �He sat down in the kitchen before a plate of cold ham, but he had only eaten one piece (of ham) when the phone rang�
b) that you can sometimes use a mass noun instead of a partitive e.g. �two teas� means the same as �two cups of tea�
The important aspect to remember is quantity, they relate to the quantity or amount of something. In your examples they are not quantities as such, but use of as a preposition, and therefore the of partitive rule does not apply.
Does that help?
I just found a reference, albeit a brief one, in Swan�s Practical English usage if you have it: 430 and 440.2
It�s morning tea here in my neck of the woods so I think I�ll go and have that piece of cake (and eat it too)
EDIT: oh, now that I think about it, yes sometimes you can but mostly not:
A carton of milk is not the same as a milk carton (the former contains milk and the latter is empty)
An army of volunteers is the same as a volunteer army (with no s plural)
One portion of mashed potato is the same as one mashed potato portion (but doesn�t sound right)
So, yes you do need a sixth sense for quantity but it is best to follow the rule for partitives.
... now where�s that cake piece  |
5 Mar 2011
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lizsantiago
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thanks to all i just wanted to clarify this since i saw an exercise saying it was an adjective . so i guess i was right and the exercise has a wrong answer. |
5 Mar 2011
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lalla99
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Many thanks  to lizsantiago, jayho and moravc for this discussion. I am frequently wondering how to explain when how to use �of � and when to use the noun as an adjective. I can tell when it �s not right (ie according to this 6th sense) but I can �t always say why and the partitive rule makes a lot of sense. Some words I realise are actually partitives and I never made the connection. |
5 Mar 2011
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