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ESL forum > Ask for help > grammatical questions    

grammatical questions



t.javanshir
Australia

grammatical questions
 
Dear friends,

I have a couple of questions concerning some grammatical points about which I am absolutely dubious. What would you say in these situations? and why?

1. a) I would never have bought the clothes, had I known they would shrink.
b) I never would have bought the clothes, had I known they would shrink.

In some books I have read the first is correct; in some native English conversations I have heard the second.

2. at letter endings or elsewhere, would you say: "I �ll be grateful" or "I �d be grateful", or would you say for example: "It would be OK if I went to your class tomorrow" or "It will be OK if I go to your class tomorrow"?

3. In a TOEFL book (Lognman, by Deborah Philips), it is written:

It should be noted that not all adjective clauses can appear in a reduced form. An adjective clause can appear in a reduced form only if the adjective clause connector is followed directly by a verb. In other words, an adjective clause can only be reduced if the connector is also a subject:

The woman that I just met is the tour guide. (does not reduce)
The letter which you sent me arrived yesterday. (does not reduce)

Is that right? I think I �ve heard the reduced forms like: "The woman I met . . ."

Thanks in advance

3 Jun 2013      





FrauSue
France

Hi there,

1. I feel that both a) and b) are fine - neither sounds odd to me. You may wish to say had I known that they were going to shrink, but "would" also sounds ok.

2. I would be grateful if ..
Start a question with a verb: Would it be ok if ...?

3. I think you can leave out the "that" or "which" in spoken English, but I �d keep it in written English.

Hope that helps!


3 Jun 2013     



Peter Hardy
Australia

#1 goes by intonation. The voice makes emphasis. Just try them both in several different ways, and you �ll hear. #2 yes, the �swap � of verb and pronoun: Would it be ok etc.? #3 I go with Mrs Sue: don�t say but do write. Cheers, Peter

3 Jun 2013     



t.javanshir
Australia

Wouldn �t we say: I �ll be grateful? since we are referring to future?

And for #2 I don�t mean a question. I mean an affirmative declarative statement: "It would be OK if I went to your class tomorrow." and "I�d be grateful."

Thanks Sue
Thanks Peter

3 Jun 2013     



Peter Hardy
Australia

In theory you �d say "I �ll be grateful", but in practice the "I �d be" is regarded as more polite. The way you state #2 it would be anything but a polite request aka question. Unless you �d add the tag question "Wouldn �t it?" I wouldn�t think of it as affirmative. Cheers. P

3 Jun 2013     



IbuLulu
Australia

I disagree ... it �s an uncertain condition - we don �t know if the person will do the favour, so we use �would �. The pragmatics involved are that we are careful not to assume that the other person will assist us - if we say �I will be grateful" we are assuming that they will help us, which seems impolite, so we phrase it in the second conditional - if you could do x for me I would be grateful.

3 Jun 2013     



Chesterfield
United Kingdom

BBC Learning English POV
 
Would be grateful is often useful when making written requests and it can also be used in conversation:
  • I would be grateful if you could / would send me further information and an application form in relation to the job advertised on page 6 of your publication � reference DS 112.
  • Would you like me to pop an application form in the post to you? ~ Yes, please. I�d be most grateful

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv131.shtml

CF

3 Jun 2013     



t.javanshir
Australia

Thank you all for your kind responses.

Peter, suppose one of your colleagues has asked you to go to his class as a sub, and you �d like to say that it would be ok.

4 Jun 2013     



yanogator
United States

Then I would say, "It would be OK for me to go to your class". It is the "if I went" part that makes it a permission issue.
 
Bruce

4 Jun 2013     



t.javanshir
Australia

Thanks Bruce
Thanks everybody

5 Jun 2013