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Classroom management. Any recipe ? How to handle apathy and discipline problems?
Hello everyone,
I wanted to say thank you to all the people who posted an answer to my post last night. As I went to bed I couldn �t answer back to you, and I �ve just searched for the post to read what you have said.
Here is the link to the post Just in case someone else wants to say something:
I was very sad yesterday. I should have aslo mentioned that I �m not the only teacher with whom they have this attitude. Yesterday, one collegue, who teaches a different subject told me she is giving up the hours because she can �t handle their attitude and she basically can �t stand them.. (And I thought to myslef, I wish I could do the same).
As I read your answers, I remembered that I �ve thought of asking, this particular group, to fill in a questionaire annonimously but I didn �t have the courage. I felt they would destroy me with unkind and not serious comments. I know I should not feel this but.... Does anyone ever felt this, or it is just me?! Feeling overwhelmed with the situation.
Someone said, that we should state rules, well I have also done this, and they break them all and are not afraid of any punishement at all!
What I did do, was to ask them what did they want to do. Seeing their really low grades in the last test. They are in Secondary school, they are about 14 -15 and 16 years old. I told them I really wanted to know what the problem was, why did they not want to do anything, why couldn �t they just really concentrate at least for once. And they said: "we want to play games" - I said, ok, I love games too, but even though we can learn with games, and have fun. If I bring a game tomorrow where you must spell, say, write or whatever, professions let �s say, you don �t even know them... So the game would not be of any use nor fun! Just a waste of time!
I really fear these adults of tomorrow. You give them homework and they come next class with nothing, and yet are not afraid of getting a low grade, mark or whatever because they know they will sit for it in Dicember, February, March, June, any time and get a pass mark after the teacher gets fed up of seeing them come to sit for the test.
Hiya ... i once started a thread called "Teen Angels" by Tanya Byron (and how to deal with them) with a view of helping out the teachers who have had problems with them. Now, from your post, i don �t know whether they are teens, or older than teens, but it �s still worth to have a look. The questionnaire that the other members seem to have suggested might be a good idea. So what if the students decide to be harsh with the comments? They might do it on purpose but you must show them you do not fear them. You might want to take a look at this thread of mine: From the students � point of view ... I was apprehensive myself of the negative things that they might write, but i decided to take the bull by the horn and it was good that i did it. It showed them that i cared and that i was willing to change my ways with them to please them, but also that in return i would want them to change their ways. Of course, it all had to be backed up with good arguments.
So the game would not be of any use nor fun! Just a waste of time! Why not teach them through fun?? What every student hates (especially teens and adults) is course books and worksheets. Whenever i say "open your books" i get a disapproving "awwww" from them. That �s why i use tricks to �seduce � them into doing things they do not feel like doing. I make them think they are doing something else.
I haven �t read the other posts from the previous thread of yours, so i �ll do it now ...
Ok, i skimmed through the posts from your thread and in a nutshell i will say what Ben Franklin or some wise Chinaman said:
Tell me, i forget. Show me, i remember. Involve me, i learn.
What most educational systems rest upon is teaching the children through telling them what to do, through "chewing" it all up for them to only just "swallow". The only way for a student to start "eating" on his/her own is by allowing them to take the bites, chew and swallow on their own. We should be there to only provide them with the food. Good quality food. One sentence of yours caught my eye:
I love
games, but I find there is a moment where we have to teach grammar and
concentrate, study!
Why not combine both grammar and fun and kill two birds with one stone?? In a presentation/workshop i gave at an ESL conference i talked about the importance of having both the E-ffective (what we want to teach them) and A-ffective (taking into consideration the students � needs and feelings) incorporated in class. If you divorce one from the other, then neither party gains.
What i would suggest is that you download the Teen Angels episode that i provided the link for and draw a parallel from the parent-child relationship and apply it to a teacher-student relationship. (I have an even better episode, the one that i used with my colleagues, but i haven �t had the time to upload it ...) I would also suggest that you send me en email so that i can send you some of the activities i use in my classes, and you might want to try one of them ... Er ... lol, i �ll send away more suggestions in a pm. It �s getting personal here
P.S. You said: Someone
said, that we should state rules, well I have also done this, and they
break them all and are not afraid of any punishment at all! What kind of punishment is it and are you consistent with applying it? Do you really mean it, or do they get away with things despite the consequences??
I just read the other posts more carefully and i liked what borna had to say about it.
My
philosophy is - there is always something you can do, so don �t give up!
She �s absolutely right about that. What continually repeats in the Teen Angels episodes is the parents saying �we have tried everything, and still they �re unbearable �, but when the psychologists have finished with them, they see that there was something they could have done.
What i learned from those episodes is that the children need a father/mother, or in our case a teacher, who will be the authority. They do need to be guided, and they need to take responsibility (borna and marion pointed that out) for their actions and non-actions. I know, easier said than done, but you must start somewhere ... Ok, i won �t ramble on any more in the forum. If you have any questions for me (or anyone else), PM me (us).
I just remembered my 8th grade class (14-year-olds) from last school year. The class was asleep most of the time no matter what i tried to do with them. The problem was that they were very very poor at English. They lacked vocabulary. One day i decided to have a chat with them instead of doing a reading passage with them and i asked them what was wrong. ONe of the boys said:
- English is difficult. I just cannot learn it. - Ok. English is difficult. And so is any other subject or any other sport or anything else unless you practise it. Could you play football when you first got a ball at your feet in the same way as you can play it now? - No. - And why is that? - Well ... i play football every day. - Imagine learning English every other day, not necessarily every day. - Yes, but I cannot pronounce the words. And i don �t know how to read them. - Ok. You cannot pronounce them. Have you ever witnessed a mum teaching its baby to say a word in our mother tongue, e.g �olovka � (=pen)? Mum says, Say o-lov-ka. And the baby says, �Ka! Then mum repeats, o-lov-ka. The baby makes progress and says, �Oka. And so on and so on until the baby manages to say the whole word. How did mum make the baby pronounce the word properly? - By making him/her repeat. - Do you think that if you tried to say a word over and over again, that you might succeed just like the baby? - But i don �t know how to read the word. - Open your book. Take a look at the glossary. Can you see the /brackets/? - Yes. - Do you remember what they are for? - Well ... it says how to read the word. - ??? The question now is, Do you ever open your book to check how to pronounce the words? - Well ... no. - Where do you think the problem lies? In English or elsewhere? - ... In me...
Of course, the conversation took a lot longer than this. I heard a lot more excuses and i tried to show them that�s all they were - excuses, not the real problems. Now, you may not believe it, but the boy (who really was terrible at pronouncing words, even after a 100th repetition on my part and then his) began to study English and made an effort to take part in each of the activities i brought to class. He did not master the language, but he showed that he was willing to be responsible and he was rewarded for it with a mark higher than the one he really deserved. And he was not the only one who changed the attitude towards language learning.
I won�t be long, I just want to say that you are NOT the only one feeling this way, you MUST keep strong. I used to feel like you, I had VERY VERY hard groups, they wouldn�t bother, they wouldn�t listen, they wouldn�t learn, they wouldn�t even look at me!!!!
It used to get on my nerves but NOT ANY MORE. I even had serious health problems because of that and I�m telling you that it�s not worth it. Don�t take it so personally, just try to do your best (I know you already do), feel good with what you do, feel proud when you go home because "I�ve done my best" and be happy because this profession is SO hard and not many people know it. They just notice how many holidays we get (as if we didn�t deserve them! LOL!), I bet they wouldn�t even stand one hour teaching...... and you are a strong person that does it every single day. Think of that, think that you are doing an amazing job that not many people would be able to do. And you want to do it well and you can�t and that�s frustrating. Fair enough. Think of how many people in the world could do their jobs better but can�t be bothered to do it and that�s sad.
Keep strong, keep doing your best and try to change things but if you can�t, it�s not the end of the world.
Dear Ohala, first of all, stop worrying and think about it like this : it´s only my job and I will try to do everything I can. I will try my best and will try to help them the best I can. I give and if they take, I will be thankful, if not - well, I will move on and will still keep on trying, no matter what. ANother thing is you are doing a good job and you are a good teacher because you care for your students and you are willing to help them achieve better results. Their age is very controversial now but it can be handled by trying to do what they want (to a sensible extent, of course!). They want games? Ok, then bring in games which will not just be fun games but will also teach them something... Try songs, try videos if it´s possible. And don´t be scared to face them and talk to them. Treat them like adults and talk to them like they are adults and show them that you are seious to them and want to cooperate. As for homework.... ask them to do it and say that if tehy do it, they can choose their fav song and next time you will play it for them and sing with them i fthey want to sing. Encouragement is a key word, not punishment.
And the last but not the least, think about your health and take care of it, it´s just your work. Don´t take it too deep inside or it will cause you a lot of stress. And think about this: these teens give you a valuable experince in your teahcing practice, yes, they are difficult to dealwith but, come on, they make you think of other ways and techniques, by trying to get on with them, you get experinece nad believe it or not, no matter how they react and what they do, you are becoming stronger as a person and as a teacher.
It �s good advice, but in this case her best is not really effective. At a seminar i attended, Gary Anderson (Cambridge) mentioned Hitler who was also doing his best, but was it really good for people?? A lot of members here do their best when making a worksheet, but the worksheet does not get any points. I sometimes do my best to write a perfect lesson plan which i think would do wonders in class, but fail. Get my point? The solution lies in doing our best to find a way, and that we have to be aware that we have not tried every possible way, because they are numerous. We just don �t think of the right one.
Dear everybody I �ve read so many wise and ecouraging words today. Although I don �t have problems with my students right now, I can see how good your pieces of advice are
I hope I �ll remeber them "when I find myself in times of trouble"
Best regards to all of you and Good Luck Ohala - I �m sure you �ll manage.
I thought only Spanish teachers have such serious problems of discipline and lack of interest in our high schools but as I can see there are people from other countries who work in the same conditions as us. It �s not a relief but at least I don �t feel so helpless. Something is wrong in our societies and we are not paying enough attention to this.
I �ve read so many wise and ecouraging words today. Although I don �t have problems with my students right now, I can see how good your pieces of advice are 
