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15 Sep 2009
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baiba
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In my opinion, the only argument against allowing L1 in the worksheets, will be the growing number of worksheets which will not be usable by everyone but only a certain group of people.
We will have to go through a large number of wss just to see if it contains bits of language that we cannot understand. I can imagine that it will be incredibly difficult to draw the line at HOW MUCH of L1 is acceptable in a worksheet and how much is TOO MUCH.
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15 Sep 2009
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goodnesses
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Hi, there.
My comment in the reported Ws page was to share Zambia09 �s POV and not Stellam �s.
That is to say that now, either we agree or not, what has been done has been done. Loads of WS have been deleted so far. Some with only few words in L1 others with more than this.
And since my first and only concern has always been being fair in our judgement and treatment, it would be unfair to leave WS of the sort stay now ... Unless we have the possibility to recover those that match Victor �s POV here mentioned by Ladybird.
Regards!
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15 Sep 2009
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zambia09
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Hi,
I feel quite unhappy because of starting such a discussion. But now I �d like to explain my point of view.
I was happy to become a member of this site because it helps me a lot with my work. And it �s great that most of the wss I can use the way they are, because at the moment (except of taking care of my child and going to work) I have been studying and it �s not easy.
I think it would become more time-consuming for most of the people here if there were bilingual wss and there would definitely be other discussions: which languages would be allowed and which wouldn �t and why and......
I have became hooked up on this site but if I will have to spend more time checking if the wss I like aren �t bilingual I would probably be forced to go somewhere else.
Maybe it could be a solution if there was a section for bilingual wss but still it would have to be divided by language or it would probably become a mess (remember Babylonia?).
I �m not sure if you will understand me but hopefully you will.
Hugs, Michaela
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15 Sep 2009
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silviamontra
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Hello everyone,
it seems we �ve got a hot issue here. I wanted to make my little contribution. As Victor said previously, if you find a ws with, for example,a list of words in English and their translation to whatever language, that ws might still be useful for me because I can remove the translations and either add my own or ask the students to write it themselves, etc.
However, I also see the point of view of those who don �t want to lose valuable time checking if there is any L1 in the printable that will make it useless for their classes.
So, where should we draw the line? I would suggest demanding that the users specifically indicated if their ws has L1. This way if we have time to check if we are interested in rearranging the ws we can download it, and if we are short of time we can skip it.
However, I am a bit worried that this measure can mean a dramatically rise in the amount of ws downloaded everyday, because I am usually short of time, as I suppose many of you will be, and I already have difficulties trying to check the enourmous amount of ws that are published every day.
I am new here, but I must say I am absolutely amazed by the quantity and quality of the material in this site, and of course I �d love it to continue being the wonderful source of resources that I think it is now.
Remember: where there �s a will, there �s a way. I am sure we �ll find the way, and it �ll be a fair one.
Hugs to u all |
15 Sep 2009
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zambia09
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Dear Silke,
your idea is nice but since I �ve became a moderator few weeks ago I �ve lost all illusions and don �t believe all the people would mention it. Maybe I �m wrong (and you can trust me I �d be happy if someone proved me wrong on this issue) but every day we can see people who try to cheat the rules, the system, all the honest members. Even now there is huge amount of users who keep uploading nonsences, stolen wss, wss in other languages than English. I don �t want to imagine what huge amount of bilingual or other language wss would be uploaded if this was allowed - without any note.
It �s like we asked people to mention that they had stole the ws they �re uploading. That �s the way I see it right now but maybe it �s because the disillusion I mentioned above and I later I might see it differently.
I really feel bad I have started this issue but as I wrote earlier - I �m so disappointed how much dishonest people is among teachers I just had to write my opinion.
Hugs, Michaela
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15 Sep 2009
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moravc
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Dear Silke,
there is a way how to upload a bilingual worksheet. As I had suggested before, we CAN always upload a worksheet consisting of "ENGLISH ONLY" exercises + bilingual section (maybe the very same exercises + some more...) provided IT IS STATED in the description and both "sections" are clearly distinguished...
The worksheet would consist of several pages...
Bilingual worksheets are a pain, sorry to say... Most of the downloaders HAVE TO rewrite them...
So, why not upload English ONLY + Bilingual in one... Seems perfect solution for me...
In case of match exercise / translate exercise, leave a blank space for the downloader to fill in with his/her L1...
In case of wordlists, leave a blank space or provide with English synonyms / definitions or ask ss to "draw" the words... There are many possibilities how to change a bilingual ws into an ENGLISH only ws...
Hope it �s clear... In case of Silke �s worksheets, it would be excellent solution for non-Germans and Germans... There is a number of German speaking who would be VERY thankful for a ready made ws and the others would be extremely happy too :-D
Why not make the wss as useful / comprehensive/"universal" as possible ?
BTW as Victor suggested: I always think what would the majority of downloaders prefer... so I do not upload bilingual English-Czech worksheets, because hundreds of people would have to alter my wss... :-D
Hope you are happy to hear that :-DD
PS: I hope there are no tons of wordlists uploaded in the future. I prefer a well prepared ws consisting of several pages, exercises, follow ups, games, rules, suggestions... Not JUST a plain wordlist - it�s too simple ... There would be many "cheaters" trying to get their points for as little work as possible... We don´t want to have ESP overloaded by "not useful" worksheets...
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15 Sep 2009
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elderberrywine
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good idea, morvac!
on the whole, bilingual worksheets are very time-consuming TWICE: once in the process of trying to find an appropriate worksheet, and again when you have to take out all the wrong L1 and replace it by yours.
It �s impossible to draw a line concerning HOW MUCH L 1 should be allowed. It �s impossible to decide WHICH L 1 should be allowed and which should not (even if we have loads of Spanish-speaking members ). It �s impossible to deal with dozens of languages here.
So accepting bilingual ws IF THEY HAVE A SECOND VERSION WITH BLANKS for other L 1 or so seems fine to me. Clear enough for moderators to act on.
Dorothea
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15 Sep 2009
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mena22
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Hi dear silke, Hi to you all. According to victor �s second statement on that particular day (the thread you provided us), I don �t think that we could accept a worksheet with a matching exercise using English and German, as in the example you gave, at least not on the grounds that he said that in the forum:
"I don �t want every single word that I say in the forum to be considered as a rule. We are just sharing opinions. I like to hear every user �s opinion before making changes.
If I decide to change any rule, it will be clearly explained in the uploading page and the moderating page."
As a moderator, I cannot vote for those worksheets to stay. If victor had made a decision on that, he would have changed the rule in the uploading page as he himself states above.
Personally, I haven �t changed my mind since that day. I do not make, upload or download bilingual worksheets. Nevertheless, if victor decides that is what he wants for his site, I have nothing against it, though I believe the cons outnumber by far the pros.
Wish you a good night,
mena
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15 Sep 2009
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