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Message board > For the non-natives: do you also face this problem?
For the non-natives: do you also face this problem?
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ARaquelSP
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For the non-natives: do you also face this problem?
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Hello, dear colleagues.
This might look like a strange topic, but it �s something I �ve been feeling ever since I started this job. I don �t know if in your countries the same thing happens, but in Portugal, in private language schools (like the one I work for), people just want and hire native-speakers to teach the idiom.
I am NOT saying native-speakers can �t be good English teachers, and I do not intend to insult anyone, but me and my Portuguese colleagues, are sometimes discriminated simply because we aren �t natives. Just the other day, when I gave my first lesson to a group of adult people, one of them asked me what my training in English was and if I had ever lived or studied in England/USA/etc... And this was just right after I had said my name. As a result, we Portuguese are constantly under pressure. Sometimes I even wonder why my school hired us (they put us so much under pressure that sometimes it �s unbearable), because there aren �t many private schools in Portugal that hire Portuguese people for teaching. But what I see sometimes is that some natives are given jobs JUST because they are natives and not because they have the know-how. I had some myself who simply sat at their desks and asked us to do exercises after exercises and we �d correct them at the end.
As I said, I don �t intend to insult anyone but I find it unfair that we are treated differently just because of our nationality. I work so hard every day, I always try to be the best I can be in every class and when I hear this kind of insinuations, I feel deeply hurt.
I had a colleague that was rejected by her students right after she had said her name. And this happened about 5 minutes after the first lesson had started... Revolting, isn �t it?
Sorry for the long post. I �d like to read your opinion on this.
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18 Oct 2009
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natyhatt
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I �m sorry for what you have to deal with. It must be hard. Here in Argentina there aren �t many places that hire native speakers. Perhaps some private institutes but just for the conversation courses. What is valued is the education of the teacher. I think that being a native does not guarantee that the person knows how to teach English. There �s some knowlege they will always lack if they didnt get training in that. So I think that is very unfair. I had a teacher that was a native, but she was trained as a teacher here in Argentina first. If she hadn �t done so, she would never have got the job.
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18 Oct 2009
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Canned Lessons 4 all!
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Here in Mexico this happens a lot and I hate it, the difference in salary is very notorious just for the fact they �re native speakers. In the school I work at, they used to make this mistake, they gave a lot of preference to native speakers regardless of their experience as teachers or handling groups. Needless to say that it didn �t work, the native speakers are excellent at using the language but often lack the skills or patience to transmit knowledge, they usually quit in the first week leaving us with more problems. Don �t get me wrong I �m sure there are native speaker teachers that are very good and skilled, I just don �t like the fact that qualifications are not taken into consideration. Fortunately at my school now they only hire people with at least a diploma of a teaching course of English as a second language. However I understand you, it�s discouraging to see in the classifieds the difference in salary offered and how the workload for them is often reduced and when you work the double and make less money than a native speaker just because of the ficticious prestige they convey.
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18 Oct 2009
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eng789
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As a native speaker, I agree with you that trained teachers often know the rules better but you can �t take away from them the fact that they don �t have an accent that might get in the way of pupils learning proper pronounciation. Someone with a heavy accent can rally cause problems. Also often the NS has more experience with things like Idioms and Slang.
Edit: Be honest with yourselves - if you had to choose between a NS and a non-NS for your own kids - you would choose the NS.
Here in Israel - NS don �t get paid more by the Board of Education - I don �t know what happens in private schools.
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18 Oct 2009
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PhilipR
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I think rejecting a non-native speaker also depends on the students � expectations and whether they were made to believe the lessons they signed up for were going to be conducted by a native speaker or not.
If a student goes to a language school where many NS work, they will probably expect to get a NS teacher as well. If �Jose, Fritz or Zhang Li � turns up to teach the lesson with or without a local accent, some might want their money back, even though these individuals might be perfectly qualified and great teachers.
So, instead of blaming the students, you might need to blame the school as well for letting students foster expectations which won �t be met.
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18 Oct 2009
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fletsch
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I am a native English speaker from Canada and I have been teaching Oral English to University students in China for over 5 years now. I can only speak from my experience. In many schools and Universities in China, native speakers are hired to help students with their pronunciation, conversational English, Western culture as well as idioms and slangs. The Chinese English teachers focus mainly on grammar, reading and writing. I have come across countless students that are great with reading and writing, but when it comes to speaking, they have many problems with pronunciation and fluency.
I am sure that there are some unqualified teachers hired because they are native speakers and some qualified Chinese (non-native speakers) teachers who don �t get jobs just because they are not native speakers. As for salaries it is difficult to say. I have more teaching hours than any of the Chinese English teachers at my University. So I would expect that I get paid more.
I believe that a combination of native speakers and non-native speakers is a good way for students to learn a new language. Both have useful methods of teaching that compliment each other very well.
Have a great Sunday everyone :) |
18 Oct 2009
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cheezels
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Do you know that here in Sweden the opposite is true? In high schools the SWEDISH language teacher also teaches English and it seems most heads of schools are very unwilling to change this. Even if the English teacher is well qualified and a native.... They advertise for ONE position to teach both subjects. Also to teach in schools here you need to have the TISUS exam in Swedish.... even if you are teaching English....sigh.... only in the bigger cities is there sometimes more flexibility. I pretty much gave up on trying to get work in schools here after 2 years of constantly knocking on doors... (goodbye 12 years of teaching in schools...) now I teach adults instead in adult learning institutions because they are the only places I can get work!
I think that different countries have different rules and expectations, and while they can be frustrating and often seem unfair there are always reasons behind them....
Good luck with your teaching and don �t let it get you down.
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18 Oct 2009
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ants
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In Switzerland, it �s not a NS who is going to teach in schools but a Swiss teacher.
You only find native speakers hired in private Language Schools.
So, the Swiss follow the Swedish system when it comes to hiring teachers in schools.
I don �t know about other areas of Switzerland but I think this is rule for most schools here.
That �s why I decided to launch out and teach privately....my solution to the problem of not being hired in the local schools where I live.
Fiona |
18 Oct 2009
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JudyHalevi
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I would like to preface my comments by saying that I mean no offense to anyone.
1. Learning grammar does not mean you can speak the language.
2. After reading the comments on this topic, it is very easy to pick out the NS from the non-NS, just by the errors in English. An example might be good, from a previous question about tag questions. It might rain tomorrow, ______________ it. There is nothing technically wrong with saying "might it not?", but no English speaker would say it like that.
3. I have many years experience teaching in Private Schools, and have opened my own business on the basis of me being a NS. Many parents ask me not only to teach what they need to know for school, but also to speak to the students in English.
4. I would not like a non-NS to teach my child Hebrew.
from Israel
Judy
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18 Oct 2009
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s.lefevre
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Hi, I think that native speakers aren�t �t necessarily better teachers. I teach 4 languages. I �m native for German, I lived 6 years in France, I have studied English and I give now Portuguese lessons for foreigners. I �m sure I �m a better French and Portuguese teacher than German teacher. Native speakers might have a better pronunciation ( even that depends on the
person�s education or the part of the country he comes from ) but native speakers don �t always realize where the student �s difficulties and problems are because for them, everything is easy and obvious. I know great English teachers who have never been to Britain or the USA.
About mistakes: not all the natives speak good English or have good grammar skills.
I �m studying Spanish with a teacher from Venezuela and in spite of being a very cultivated person, she is not a fabulous teacher. Portuguese is very similar to Spanish and she is not able to prepare a good course for me.
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18 Oct 2009
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mena22
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Hi Raquel, I �m very sorry that you have to go through this process of discrimination.
In this particular case, as you �re talking about Private Language Schools, I totally agree with Philip R when he says it �s a question of students � (I would add "parents �") expectations. Language Schools are known for having native speakers as teachers and that is the reason why many parents are willing to pay extra money to have their children get the communication skills and fluency that they can �t get at the schools they attend. If I signed up for a class with a native speaker, I would definitely expect to have one, no matter how good the non-native teacher was.
So, as Philip said, the problem is with the School, not you, because as far as I know in their adverts they enhance the fact they have Native speakers as teachers to get students to their schools, so it �s only normal that people �s first reaction is that of someone who feels defrauded. The problem here is that you �re the one who is getting all the anger. I wouldn �t keep it in but I wouldn �t say much either. Just something like ... "Although I �m not a non-native speaker I believe I �m qualified for the job. How about giving me a chance and at the end of the lesson if you �re not satisfied then you can talk to the school board?"
Wish you all a nice Sunday!
It �s good to be back! 
mena |
18 Oct 2009
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