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ESL forum >
Grammar and Linguistics > Native English speakers and English grammar
Native English speakers and English grammar
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almaz
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Native English speakers and English grammar
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If - like me - you �re sick of people saying that native English speakers are hopeless with their own grammar, then this well-written little article from Michael Rundell, Editor-in-Chief of Macmillan Dictionaries, should provide a welcome corrective:
He makes the important distinction between conventions, which are touted as �rules � and are often waved around to make people uncomfortable with their own tongue, and well, the real rules, which can and do present genuine difficulties for ESL learners. |
11 Jun 2014
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elderberrywine
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glad this is doing you good, almaz.
What often puzzles me, though, is, that in American English many things that are commonly considered as WRONG are used all the time, like adjective instead of adverb etc.
But who am I to judge ...
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11 Jun 2014
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almaz
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Do you know the names of any of these people commonly doing the considering? |
11 Jun 2014
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cunliffe
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Almaz, I followed your link and read hopefully. However I could get no further than �fewer than 5% �....
Need I say more? Unless he goes on to say how purists insist on using �fewer � instead of �less � but get it wrong, just as he did... Now, I don �t mind when people use � less � instead of �fewer �, but the other way round? I can have no respect for that person at all. Not interested in a word that individual might have to say - about grammar, anyway.
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11 Jun 2014
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almaz
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You should have read on just a little bit more; he actually wrote "fewer than 5% of all cases". If you don �t mind me saying, Lynne, I think you �re confusing percentages of count nouns with percentages of non-count nouns. You obviously wouldn �t say "fewer than 5% of the sugar", but there �s absolutely nothing wrong with something like "fewer than 5% of all teachers in the UK...". "Less than" works with both, of course, and this is what I prefer personally.
Edit: I recall this exact argument on a usage website some years ago, when it was pointed out that both the AP Stylebook and The Chicago Manual of Style - hardly champions of descriptivism - used to insist on "fewer than" with percentages of count nouns. I can�t find the post, but I did find this example of its use in the Chicago guide for preparing electronic manuscripts. If you care to actually look, you�ll find examples of this usage all over the place from the most prestigious publications to the meanest internet blog - I�ll be happy to point you in their direction. Just don�t tell me it�s �bad� grammar.
Alex
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11 Jun 2014
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cunliffe
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Yep, you got me, I didn �t read on. I stopped at fewer that 5% and had a fit of righteous indignation! Sorry! |
12 Jun 2014
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