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ESL forum > Ask for help > Why isn´t it correct?????    

Why isn´t it correct?????



wakebeauty
Brazil

Why isn´t it correct?????
 
Can anyone explain why the relative pronouns WHICH  isn�t correct
in the exercise below????
Taken, BTW, from this excellent site:
http://www.usingenglish.com/handouts/answers.php?id=234

Q5 - The day ...... I started work there was a disaster
which
that
where

A little kiss for all of you...
specially to you Victor, for all you hard work!!!!!!

17 Sep 2008      





Vickiii
New Zealand

Which is used when there is a choice between two things.  The day that you started work is not a choice, it is a specific day.
 
You can say:
Which day should I start work?  (Could refer to more than one day - there is an option.)
Which day did I start work? (The answer could be any one of many)
but not
The day which I started work. (referring to one specific day)
 
I hope this helps.

17 Sep 2008     



mpotb
Spain

That sentence is a relative clause, and which (relative pronoun) is only used for things, animals, actions... In that sentence the relative pronoun refers to time or a date, so you can only use the relative pronoun when, or you can replace it by that.
For example: "That was the day when / that I met Charles."
Hope it helps you!!!

17 Sep 2008     



Zora
Canada

Also, it should be pointed out that if the option "on which" was there, it would have indeed been the correct answer. But in this case since "when or on which"  were not offered you have would to use "that". 

17 Sep 2008     



dani05031985
Brazil

Actually, I think that the best relative pronoun to be used in this situation would be "When" because you�re talking about time. I find it weird and it sound incorrect to me to use which or that...............

17 Sep 2008     



wakebeauty
Brazil

Dear colleagues VICKII, MPOTB, ZORA, DANI05031985 and �NGELA CRISTINA,

I thought I knew how to use the RELATIVE PRONOUNS, but because of this exercise, I saw that I still have a lot to learn...

I always teach my students that we use for PEOPLE: WHO/THAT and before verbs they can�t be omitted �coz they are the subject, (she is the girl who/that LOVES me) and if there isn�t a verb b4 the relative we can use WHO/THAT/ WHOM/ OMIT (she�s the girl WHO/THAT/WHOM/ - you love)

for things or animals: which/that (+) verb=subject  - That is the book WHICH/THAT explains the subject; WHICH/THAT/OMIT  (-) verb=object - This is the book which/that/- I need

after preposition for people we must use WHOM (you are the person in WHOM I trust); for animals/things we must use WHICH (This is the city in WHICH I was born)

 PLACE: WHERE - this is the city where I was born
 TIME: WHEN - the year when you were born was very cold

(I THOUGHT WE COULDN�T SUBSTITUTE where/when FOR that...)

**** and to make things worse, ONE MORE DOUBT... WHY CAN�T THE RELATIVE PRONOUN BE OMITTED BELOW???
(from the same site)

Q4 - I�ve lost the paper ...... I had written her phone number on
----
whose
that


please colleagues, I really need your help, �coz as You all can see, all the rules I thought were correct, maybe aren�t...



17 Sep 2008     



Vickiii
New Zealand

My Gosh wakebeauty,  My head is spinning from the rulesWacko. You sure know a lot more about English than I do!

I tried to go through and say yes or no to each - but I am sorry I really couldn�t do it! I think that my English grammar is terrible.  Most of your examples sound ok to me.  Some perfect, others slightly different to what I would say but probably correct for True english.

I think you need advice from someone who has studied English as a second language to help with these questions.  Or at least someone who has studied grammar.  I have only studied teaching and psychology... When it comes to many parts of ESOL I have found it is better to listen to people who have english as a second language - this is one of those times! 

Good luck in your quest for reasons to English...i don�t think there is any reason in English at all somedays!LOL


17 Sep 2008     



wakebeauty
Brazil

Vickiii,

thank you so much for you really made me laugh kkkkkkkkkk LOL I needed that... �coz I�m really worried!!!! Imagine if all I�m teaching all this time IS WRONG, no only my head will spin, but also my brain Wacko. heheheheeh

See, one way or the other u really helped me...Wink

17 Sep 2008     



GoingBacktoEngland
United Kingdom

:) ... Or use a contact clause and �leave out the relative pronoun "that".

As you know, you can leave out� who/that/ which �when they are the object.

e.g . � the woman I wanted to see was away. or the woman who I wanted to see was way.( this last sentence sounds strange to the ear) :)

Another example:

Have you found the keys �that you lost? or Have you found the keys that you lost? You don�t need �"that" in this case.

In Reported speech "that" is not necessary as well. It�s the object of the sentence , so leave it out.

She said (that? for what?) ............she was not willing to go out.

The car� I saw...�

The teacher I saw... the kids I met.... THE PAPER I HAVE LOST.

I have �hundreds of relative pronoun worksheets I don�t upload �here, so if you want some of them for your students ... ,just let me know ,ok?

ok?

Best regards

18 Sep 2008     



goodnesses
Algeria

Dear wakebeauty 
First how is little "beauty" doing.

As Vickiii said I think there is nothing to add to the rules and examples you gave.
However, I am nearly certain that the problem you are pointing out comes from the site page itself. There maybe be an error in the script of the page if it does not accept the right answer or the disgner missed to give the right answer among the proposed ones. This happens very often in ONLINE exercises.
One day I got trapped in something like this. My Ss where doing an online exercise about conditionals. Everything was going on well even perfectly until one the best Ss called. The exercise didn�t want to accept his answer though it was correct; the sentence was cond. T3. I don�t tell the situation I was in because I started to doubt about what I explained to my SS. But when we tried on purpose the answer using the forms of all the other types and no one was counted right you can�t imagine the sigh of relief I let out.
I made the same thing in one of my online exercises thanks to some members who pointed out the error "which" I corrected immediately.

Hope my reply is not irrelevnt to the topic.

Regards all.

18 Sep 2008     



Zora
Canada

Sorry, it took so long to answer Beauty ... but yes, the relative can be omitted in the above example (you aren�t going crazy btw.. :-) )  Sometimes there are mistakes on the web - don�t be afraid to question what you see... because the page/person who made the activity might have made an error. 



18 Sep 2008     

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