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ESL forum >
> What is an author? And WHO ARE YOU, nhatjulian?
What is an author? And WHO ARE YOU, nhatjulian?
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domnitza
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What is an author? And WHO ARE YOU, nhatjulian?
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Some time ago, I received a PM telling me that somebody was using one of my layouts. I checked and couldn �t be 100% sure that the ws in question was mine. There was something similar, but not enough to claim it mine. Just to be sure, I opened the document, went to PROPERTIES and had the surprise to see my husband �s name on it. (tony vlasceanu). So it was true! Still, I took no action, because that worksheet had the cliparts changed. And it wasn �t removed.
Today, another kind member sent me the same message. So I checked again. (I have to say that from time to time I check nhatjulian �s worksheets just to see if he has taken one of my worksheets; he is as busy as a bee....) I also read the moderators � comments (see here: http://www.eslprintables.com/abusereports.asp) and decided it was high time for this question to be asked:
WHAT IS AN AUTHOR? (additional question: WHO ARE YOU, nhatjulian?)
If you ever have the curiosity to check his worksheets, you will see that he has used lots of my documents so far. The design is different, so is the content. So he hasn �t stolen MY worksheets. But I DO NOT UNDERSTAND!!! Can �t he just open a new document on his PC in order to create his worksheets? Nhatjulian, are you that lazy? C �mon!!! You haven �t used just one document from me, you have used more than 5! And why me, if I am allowed to ask? I am not accusing you of stealing my worksheets, because you have always changed the cliparts (more or less, though). I am accusing you of being a fake author: incapable of facing a blank worksheet, always waiting for somebody else to make the first step, because this first step is the most difficult to be done. But you already know that, don �t you, nhatjulian?
I ask all of you, moderators or not, but DEFINITELY AUTHORS, to say what you think: besides creators of our worksheets, shouldn �t we also have the natural right of also being their AUTHORS?
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4 Aug 2009
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goodnesses
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Dear Domnitza.
Your post is more than wise. And it comes in the right time.
Let �s put an end to this confusing matter.
When can we consider that a WS is stolen?
When can we say that a layout style is personal and should not be imitated with or without author�s permission?
Is the presence of another person�s name in the Doc properties enough to consider the WS as a stolen one? (though I confess it is a little strange when it is the same person all the time.)
Should we compare only what we can see on the two WS (content and layout)? Or should we compare the very technical computer matters or the WS which aren´t accessible to the majority of us?
Hope we will have as many views as possible to for the sake of improving the site.
Regards all.
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4 Aug 2009
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domnitza
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As I said before, I am not accusing nhatjulian of stealing my worksheets. Those worksheets of his we are talking about have no connection to a style. (sorry, but it is true, in my opinion). You have admitted it, too, it IS strange what he is constantly doing. You don �t have to be an expert in Word just to open a new document. This is what I am talking about. This is what we should stop: taking somebody else �s ws as a basis for your ws. It shouldn �t be confusing at all. All members, old or new, should be aware of the fact that they must be authors of their ws, not only creators. And nhatjulian has done it several times, though I am sure he was aware of what he was doing. It should be interesting to see his opinion, too. |
4 Aug 2009
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sarahjane68
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Hi Domnitza,
It must be very frustrating when someone takes your work in that way. I am sorry you �ve had to go through this. I don �t know if it helps but I have actually written a book and was advised at the time to put my name with the date (year, I think) and the Copyright � sign. It is supposed to give you some protection. I don �t bother with it on worksheets though. I do, however, put my initials, the year and a code (for my own reference so I know which sheet it is) on the bottom of my worksheets. I usually do it as a footer but sometimes I am rushing so just type it in manually. I never checked but perhaps, when it �s as a footer, it �s not as easy to remove the name at the bottom.
I don �t know about you but, between lessons, I spend a lot of time preparing worksheets (many of which I have tried to upload but cannot as I repeatedly get an error message despite adjusting the size or whatever). I can imagine it is annoying to see someone else taking your work and getting credit for it. It would be nice if there was a way to prevent this happening.
Sarah |
4 Aug 2009
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libertybelle
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I too read the comments today regarding lay-outs and contents.
Not everyone is good or creative with the word program.
I understand that. They may have lots of good activities but can �t make
a lay-out that will attract attention.
There are many here who would gladly help and do help these people to get started with worksheets. But.................. If someone is truly Word-Challenged and can �t find their way with the Word program - then they ought to ASK if someone has a lay-out they can borrow.
I understand how you feel Domnitza.
Why so many people have a hard time saying thank you and please help me seems to be a sign of the times. I sure hope, we as teachers can change that. (and also why so many think it �s ok to steal is also a horrible sign of the times)
The author is the creator or writer of materials. (books, worksheets, whatever)
Lay-out is the artistic side and the problem with this is, that we are all working
with the same program - WORD. If we were artists, some would be using crayons, some pastels others acrylic paints etc.- but here we all use the same "paint brush".
Also in the ART world, many people have the same style, but not the same themes.
So I would guess there would be a lot of overlapping. I see similarities all the time here.
So this problem is really hard to solve.
L
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4 Aug 2009
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zailda
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Hi Domnitza!
I remember your ws and I also downloaded it and saw that the ws wasn �t the member �s because someone told us that name is your husband �s name. I also remember a case when someone prepared a ws in her/his son �s computer and his name appeared in a ws another member uploaded as his/hers. In both cases I voted for the removal because in my opinion we are not allowed to "update" other members � worksheets, even if the changes are 90% of the total. If I want to change one of my worksheets (and that happened with Alenka yesterday), changing it or adding more questions, pictures, etc, I have the right to upload it as a new one, so the new version will be free for the members who want to have the updated version. In this case, it �s better to delete the old one.
But another member can �t do it for us, use our ws to insert his/her work on it. If s/he does, it must be kept only for inclass use and not uploaded here as an original work. I agree with you, to claim a ws as yours you have to start with a blank sheet. You can add lyrics or a poem or anything else you want to use as a resource to prepare your ws (that you started since the very beginning) but in this case you have to add your ORIGINAL WORK.
This part is not addressed to you, I �m aware that you know that, but I �m just taking the opportunity to warn new members that a list taken from a book or the internet is not to be considered as YOUR OWN WORK, since you didn �t really make it. If you upload only a list, it certainly will be reported and I �m among the members (I �m not the only one) who consider that lists and grammar rules without any activities we have enough in our grammar books and can easily be found everywhere (for free) in the internet. So no need to clutter the site with them, let �s make place for original members � work, new ideas on teaching and useful ready-to-use resources to make our classes interesting and promote faster learning.
Moderators also have to prepare their ws and give classes, let �s spare us to spend hours comparing and downloading unnecessary material just to conclude it �s a mere copy.
Plagiarism is not allowed here and for me there �s no difference if it ranges from 1% or 100%. If you stole 1 dollar from a wallet that has 1.000, for me it �s stealing anyway. If you use someone �s exercises, layout, pictures, and even his/her ideas, it �s wiser to ask for permission first, or your ws may be reported, even if 90% of the work is yours.
Let �s respect other members � efforts and ask first if you want to use someone �s material. It �s nice, polite, secure. Because if you use someone �s material I can assure you (even taking the risk of being considered unfriendly or something like that) that in respect for the member who created the ws first I �ll vote for the removal. Always.
Have a nice Tuesday
Zailda Coirano
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4 Aug 2009
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libertybelle
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Hi Silke - Like I wrote before you here on the board - many people here have a similar style - that can �t be helped when we all work with the same program!
Where do we draw the line?
Think if there were only one person who had a patent on Impressionism - where would all the other wonderful artists be? Think of what we �d missed out on!
But I do believe that this person should ask.
L
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4 Aug 2009
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domnitza
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Thanks, Sarah, for your support. I assure you that this stuation is not frustrating for me at all. Opening a doc and inserting some autoshapes take no effort at all, actually, so anybody can do it. Zailda expressed it so clearly: we are not allowed to "update" other members � worksheets, even if the changes are 90% of the total. This is what nhatjulian has done and this is what I want us to stop. I am nor angry or frustrated; there are more important things to take care of, honestly; nhatjulian doesn �t deserve the trouble. But this site is changing all the time, it is improving. By us. We are all trying to make it better, aren �t we? (the best, I would say)
Dear L, I am not talking about styles/layouts. The line is very easy to draw, if we have enough common sense to do so. Otherwise, we should be obliged to. |
4 Aug 2009
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donapeter
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Hi Domnitza,
You know that I just admire your work and your eagerness to do a great
job here. I know you work hard for what you create. You are definitely
an author!!!! And I admire you for that!!!
Back to your topic.....I think you have a fan, an admirer, a man (or
not!!!) who takes you as a guide in his creation. Maybe only for his
first steps. Later on, he will be able to create his own ws. Who knows?
I don �t want to be misunderstood.....if he changed almost everything in
the paper it means that he can do something on his own......so...why
the case?
Now that you told him that in PROPERTIES he can change the name......he will do that...and maybe your ws will be his, without your husband �s name on them. That will be an original work for him!!!!!
But as Zailda said before "If you stole 1 dollar from a wallet that has 1.000, for me it �s stealing anyway"So....
I really think that he doesn �t have any bad intentions ..........but, we all must admit that creativity is not such a wide spread feature that everybody could enjoy !!! The ones who have it are models for the ones who don �t.
Keep up the great work !!
I just love your ws!
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4 Aug 2009
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goodnesses
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I just want to ask a simple question. My only concern is to improve the site and more importantly to keep fair with everybody.
What if we have 2 WS completely different in content by 2 different members but the 2 WS carry the same name in their properties?
How shall we consider them? Copies? Stolen? What?
If it is not the case, I mean not stolen and not copied, they should not be reported.
Victor gave us an example of 2 WS which were identical in content, layout, and author name.
Remember Domnitza said it she is not accusing any one of stealing.
BTW, Can someone tell me what �s going on in the moderators page? I saw WS we voted many days ago back. Is it normal???
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4 Aug 2009
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elderberrywine
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I think even if I virtually "lived" in ESL printables 24 hours a day I would not, as a moderator, be capable of telling whose personal style has been copied to which extent. So whoever feels wronged has to point it out and deal with it.
But we should certainly define more clearly what authorship means.
Today somebody said she had uploaded a ws that was handed to her by a nice colleague (and neither of them knew that it was copied from a book, because yet a third person had made it!!). In my view, this person was definitely NOT entitled to upload something she had not made herself. Just because something "is around" doesn �t mean we can upload it under our name here.
For me, being an author means:
- it was my idea (and if I was inspired by sb else I �ll ask for his or her permission and point out where his or her work ends and my changes begin. Changes must be MAJOR, not minor)
- it was my doing
- it was my layout (and if I copied or adapted sb else �s I �ll ask for his or her permission)
Dorothea
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4 Aug 2009
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