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ESL forum > Concerning worksheets > "FAIR USE" is good for images, but not for īlayouts ī?    

"FAIR USE" is good for images, but not for īlayouts ī?



Bruna Dutra
Brazil

"FAIR USE" is good for images, but not for īlayouts ī?
 
Hi, guys! Here I am once more talking about layouts, you must be thinking "there comes Bruna again"!!! hehehehe... but I really hope you īre not!! LOL

I īve seen some things in the reporting page and there are some questions I would like to ask and deeply appreciate the answers I get. I do care about being fair, so I would like you guys to elucidate some thing to me.

1. Some members here can draw, most of us can īt. So we use images and graphics from the net (both free and copyrighted) and we are protected by īfair use ī, is that right?

2. Some members really know their way through MSWord and create GREAT designs for their wss, which obviously is attractive to the eye (even though a GREAT layout doesn īt mean a GREAT ws - they also work hard to make their ESL resources). Other members don īt know squad about computer graphics and stuff. However, the latter cannot use the graphic creations of the former to help making their worksheets more attractive because that doesn īt fall under "fair use" (meaning educational, non-profitable use)? Is that it?

I just think it īs a little tricky, and I know that not everybody uses copyrighted stuff without permission, but many of us do (myself included) so I guess it would be ridiculous for me (again, for me) to declare that others can īt use my graphics because I have made them, if I benefit from sth, it īs only reasonable I should understand when others need sth too. And remember, if we use free clipart is because many people are kind enough to share their (hard) work with the WORLD (in exchange of ad quotas, yes - but not all!! ehehehe)!! I just don īt see the same generosity in a community that has always seemed so helpful.

I know I can īt compare my stuff to many members here, but I learned a lot when I became a member of ESLprintables and now I īm getting the hang of it, I would like to see many others improving their work like I think I did. I wanna download them too!!! hehehehhehe

So far things haven īt been clear for me, in Victor īs post I understood one thing, then in the moderators ī page, I see another, so I just want to understand how these things will work here and I promise I īll shut up!!!

Tongue

I īll see your thoughts first thing in the morning! Nighty-night!
Hugs, Bruna.

15 Dec 2009      



moravc
Czech Republic

Hello Bruna,  I think you got it wrong! Most of the creators here are generous, willing to help, offer their EDITABLE works and downloaders can do WHATEVER they want with the wss... So, basically, ALL contributors are very nice!... However, if anybody wants to upload the adapted wss, s/he should contact the author... THIS is fair...
Well, since we are a small community of extremely creative teachers I think it is FAIR to contact the original author FIRST and give credits - link to the author... Thatīs standard !
If anyone asks me to give permission for my layout and send me the final wss, I would be very happy to help. I would be flattered... I think we are not so old to forget where is the original wss from (eslprintables) and then find the original author and contact him/her... This is fair...
In case of "anonymous" pictures from internet, nobody contacts  all creators, as it would take a long time... It is not fair, but at least, some of us give links to the website where are the pics from...

ī....However, the latter cannot use the graphic creations of the former to help making their worksheets more attractive because that doesn īt fall under "fair use" ... ī
No... The downloaders can use, change, adapt all wss and use it for their students... They cannot upload it to net without permission only... I think it īs perfectly correct and fair...

Eslprintables is the best site, because 99% of worksheets are editable. All are originals, creative and wonderful works!!!
THANKS TO YOU ALL for your creativity, kindness and helpfulness !!!

15 Dec 2009     



Zora
Canada

I see very few have wanted to answer here this morning. But my opinion is this... regardless of the rules of the site which I do respect.

Layouts should not be exclusive. A layout is, in my view, similar to clipart, pictures, borders, etc. A great layout has nothing to do with content. Content is what should be more important since this is an educational site. But lately what people are quarrelling about is exactly this "layouts".

A layout is only a way to structure or present ideas and if the idea within a layout is original than why should there be any problems? 

Lately, it has gotten to the point that we are seeing things reported because they are similar to someone else īs work, the border was taken from whomever, a colour that fades within a box is someone else "trademark". All this is slightly "crazy" in my opinion.

There are GREAT contributors here that can īt make a great layout to save them.... AND then there are others that make great layouts but their work is, sorry for saying this, just "normal" and if it weren īt for the layout the worksheet wouldn īt get as many points as they do...

In other words, I don īt think that it īs quite fair that a great idea gets shunted aside because only a few of us here are interested in "plain or mediocre" looking work and that see past all the "frilliness".

This is not a site dedicated to Art work.. and I agree that art and exercises can go together BUT when Art becomes more important than the content of the worksheet, there is a problem in my humble opinion...


15 Dec 2009     



Bruna Dutra
Brazil

Hi moravc, thanks for answering. I agree with everything you said about eslprintables.com and its members. I think EVERYONE here is kind for sharing. In fact, I see that many members who have more points they īll ever need keep contributing, which I think is a selfless act. My questions are not towards anyone and I do respect people that want to protect their work. I don īt agree with everything but I respect.

After joining ESLprintables I have never needed to go somewhere else to find what I need, this SURELY IS the best site ever.

But regarding the usage of layouts, you mean that if people were also kind enough to ask, it would be alright? I also think this is obviously the best idea.

But I only see some members going like "why didn īt you ask me, I would īve said yes", others are like "STOLEEEEN you thief" - I beg your pardon if I īve offended anyone. And many people go from the idea that "if I can use clipart, I guess I can use other graphics". I īm not defending or attacking any one, as you can see I have never copied anything and I īm still learning to work in word, I īm used to Corel, which is no good due to size problems.

I received more pms than posts in this thread. This is a delicate issue, I know.
I just wanted to hear some other opinions and reasons. Thank your for sharing yours!

15 Dec 2009     



Bruna Dutra
Brazil

Hi Zora, you answered while I was writing! Thank you for sharing your opinion too. Your post was very enlightening, as I also see great ESL resources (original ideas, games, group dynamics, etc) being overlooked because they īre not eye-catchy. While a wordsearch and clipart is a hit here. I know many of you work with children and that īs really important for them, but IMHO it īs a little demotivating when a teacher may see his/her ESL RESOURCE work (which also took hours to be made maybe) being much less appreciated than ART. And that could mean we īre all losing the opportunity to also have great work here.

So, I guess I mean that by sharing our graphics, since we benefit from others who also share, we īre ENCOURAGING other teachers to improve their contributions.

It would be great for me if people uploaded more material like mine, it would spare me the time of adapting them to my needs! hehehehe

Again, I appreciate everyone who answers, as it still is not clear for me what can and can īt be done regarding this issue.

thanks!!

15 Dec 2009     



PhilipR
Thailand

I hardly ever download flashy designs. First of all you have you delete or īuncolour ī all the coloured boxes before you can print it unless you want to run out of ink every other day. You might have noticed that I hardly ever use background boxes. To make my wss more attractive I use a Background colour (shows on screen but doesn īt print). BTW, Bruna I think you īre right when you say that great design sometimes just makes up for mediocre quality.

I don īt think others should copy the whole layout of existing worksheets though (unless the author has given explicit permission, like me on my board games) - they should at least change some of it (other background colour, different font perhaps, delete a box or so, etc.) as long as this happens and the outcome is somewhat different from the original, I don īt mind others using the basic layout of my wss. Indeed, some members have more points than they can ever spend; it īs become a race for them. For others, being a moderator has become a power trip and policing the site seems more important than contributing new wss. Just my point of view.

15 Dec 2009     



tancredo
Portugal

Please, Stop it!
 
What is the objective of this site?
To show you are so good that nobody can touch your worksheets?
Consider everybody īs what you put here! 
When I put something here, it īs YOURS to take. Just say (if asked) you got it from ESLprintables . That īs what I do.
We all want to teach English well, isn īt it? And, fortunately, the most people here see it that way  . There are fantastic worksheets here, concerning graphics and layout, and there are fantastic worksheets here,black and white, without designs or graphics  and both serve our interests.    SHARING, it īs what this is about!
TAKE and GIVE.

15 Dec 2009     



Bruna Dutra
Brazil

Phiiiilip, I hope you īre not talking about me when you say that policing the site has become more important than contributing!!!! Cry hehehehhhe
I īm joking!! Tongue

I wouldn īt call the worksheets mediocre, but I do think it īs a little too egotistical to want property of your design if you use other people īs work (for non-profitable use, as others would use yours), and EVERYBODY HERE DOES, paying for it or not.

I have adapted my ws from Corel to word and obviously to eslprintables, as I saw my ws wouldn īt be much downloaded I turned them into bright shiny things, as I also needed points at the beginning to get use of the website. I was even advised by one of the members to do so, and I īm glad I did it, because my wss got many downloads because of color and layout (I guess). Not that I don īt think my content is good, but I see that not everyone can deal with "tools", but can great great ESL resource.

And we īre losing great work because our eyes sell easily.

15 Dec 2009     



RabbitWho
Czech Republic

Whenever I make a boarder or a picture myself I say other people can use it, but usually i take clipart from free clipart sites.

Even though we only have a black and white printer in school i īm still drawn to the coloured WSs, i don īt know why, so I make my ws coloured, i don īt think it takes a lot of work to print in grey scale though.
You don īt have to "uncolour" it as someone said, you just have to tell the computer to print grayscale.

Personally I īm a big fan of open sourse ideals and the creative commons licence, I think it īs great to borrow things like layouts and I like people taking my worksheets and helping students all over the world.  But I know for some people this is their main creative outlet, and they put a lot of themselves into their work, so I can understand they feel upset when it īs taken. I have other creative outlets so I don īt mind, this is just practical for me, and it īs about helping students learn.

15 Dec 2009     



Lancillotta:
Italy

I agree with Zora  and , as RabbitWho, I am a great fan of open sourse ideals, that īs why I  licensed my sites using a creative commons licence.
 
Regards
Sabrina

15 Dec 2009     



Bruna Dutra
Brazil

I appreciate all the replies, but so far, nobody has answered my two questions, they īre yes or no questions, really simple. If you īre kind enough to tell me why, I appreciate even more.

1. When we use copyrighted material (like īcleaning ī a picture from a magazine or book), for educational, non-profitable use, like in here) we are protected by fair use, right?

2. When we use a layout/template/style from someone here (even if  not copyrighted), we īre not, is that it?

As a moderator, I want to vote properly, or even refrain from voting if it īs the case, but I feel I can īt until someone solve my doubts.

THANKS sincerely to all you guys!

15 Dec 2009     

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