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ESL forum >
Message board > esl resources
esl resources
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Mariethe House
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esl resources
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I am posting about this topic again .... After seeing Victoria �q ws reported for using
pictures from esl books, I just wonder wherelse you can get them from?
I mean , if I want the picture of a kitchen to teach all the furniture vocab and prepositions and some action verbs, can you tell me wherelse I can find it apart from an esl resource? Unless I am a great artist, which I am not ( far from it!)
So if esl pictionaries exist ,it is for that reason, is it not? So that, we teachers can use them! Usually, this kind of material is quite expensive and we can �t expect each child to have one , can we?
Do we complain when people use dictionaries?Why should we complain about pictionaries?
Out of sheer curiosity and because of this unfair attitude , I had a look at many preposition- worksheets using pictures of a room (whatsoever).... Well I would be very surprised if the majority of them came from non esl resources!!But I can �t prove it and I am not interested in proving it because those worksheets are of great interest and use for me!!
So, I would advise people to think twice before we get rid of some great work and of some very valuable members!
reference to the previous link:
http://www.eslprintables.com/forum/topic.asp?id=18015
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29 Mar 2010
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lshorton99
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I agree that looking for problems is always a bad idea but now the point has been raised it is hard to ignore. If a worksheet is in violation of copyright law, theoretically victor could be held liable and the whole site shut down. I admit that it �s highly unlikely but is it really worth the risk when it is easier to remove the worksheet and ask the member to upload it without images violating copyright law?
I rarely report worksheets but if someone else has found a clear problem, I feel obliged to vote for removal. Isn �t the job of moderators to protect this site? I don �t belive blame should be assigned to any member whose worksheet contains images which they don �t have the right to use. It is extremely difficult to find suitable images. At the same time if it is against the rules of the site then no amount of discussion will change that.
No one wants to lose great members and great worksheets but copyright on the internet is a growing concern - one which we have to be aware of. Taking images from someone else is just as serious as copying work (legally speaking).
Sorry to disagree - I �d love it if this wasn �t an issue, but sadly, it is.
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29 Mar 2010
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Lina Ladybird
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I cannot see the �unfair attitude� you are referring to, dear Mariethe House. The rules are clear.
As for your question where you can get pictures of a kitchen for example, just search the web by using Google!! There �s no need to take any images from ESL books including dictionaries.
Don �t want to offend anyone, but in my opinon it �s just laziness when people don �t take the time to look for suitable pictures on the Internet. It�s so much easier and less time-consuming to just scan a picture from a book, isn`t it? ;)
E.g. it has cost me ages to find suitable clipart images for my latest ws, but that �s life!! We must make an effort if we want to be fair. :))
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29 Mar 2010
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Zora
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Since when, pray tell, are dictionaries considered just as simple "ESL resources"? They are not. And with that, I think taking a picture is, within the "Fair Use" mandate as long as we are not using it for the very exact same thing as it was originally intended.
If you use a picture of a bedroom, with it �s objects, you can then use that picture to talk about prepositions or items found in a house (key word - in a HOUSE, not a bedroom...), where clothes should be kept, which clothes are worn when, etc...
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29 Mar 2010
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lizsantiago
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Zora even if we consider something as fair use or no, the rules of the owner state
that:
Your contributions must be your own creations. You can use free images from cliparts or other free sources. You can also use images that you have subscribed to and paid for.
Worksheets containing watermarked cliparts are not allowed and will be removed from now on.
Please, don �t use pictures taken from other ESL websites or books, even if you add your own exercises.
Marie
sorry but i agree with topolina, sometimes it takes me a week just to look for images and sometimes i even ended up buying them. why can �t others do the same? Besides, Victor has set his rules if we dont like them we have the option to move to another site and post our ws where the rules are the ones we like.
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29 Mar 2010
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Mariethe House
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Maybe this picture ( In Victoria �s ws ) is not her own work but she has done lots of pages of exercises adapting the document to teaching purposes, all different from the initial purpose .
Of course for your knowledge Topolina ,I am not as stupid as you may think and have searched the internet for pictures long before you advised me to do so! ANd inevitably I have come back to this site because I knew I would find exactly what I needed and which I didn �t find on the internet!!
And when you should call Victoria " a lazy person" I would think twice about it!! Victoria is one of the most hard-working persons that has ever existed on this site and she has helped a great number of people by doing tutorials and sending wonderful links whenever someone was crying for help on the forum and this is just one minimal part of the work she has produced!! So, please find out about people before you start uttering nonsense!
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29 Mar 2010
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Zora
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@Lizsantiago,
I was referring to "dictionaries". Picture dictionaries to be more exact. They are not only ESL resources - they are a fundamental part of English learning for native speakers too. I think that, if we take a picture from a "picture dictionary", we are not infringing on anyone �s rights if we keep to the "Fair Use" mandate which is not only a US thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
In other words, the new work must not be the same but must be added on to or totally different, NOT for profit and classroom use only...
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29 Mar 2010
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lshorton99
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I think saying laziness is very unfair. Is it any less time consuming finding images from books than from websites?
Unfortunately simply by publishing here, Fair Use is not applicable. Educational purposes do not include this type of website even if it is not, strictly speaking, commercial. If it were only thumbnails, it would be a grey area but it �s not. By publishing the image on this site, people are able to gain free access to something they would otherwise have to pay for.
Again - I don �t think any member should be judged or criticised for using pictures of this sort. Copyright is a very tricky area and dictionaries may or may not be considered ESL resources. Everyone just has to be a little more careful about where they get their images from.
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29 Mar 2010
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zoemorosini
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Hello all:
I actually am quite a good artist (so people tell me), and use my own drawings in worksheets I �ve made from scratch all the time. However, I hesitate to add them to ESLPrintables because they might be stolen and used elsewhere by someone, and that prospect makes me ill.
If I �m looking for images (for example, when making a worksheet about parts of a house), I �ll often use things from magazines and scan them, or websites like the furniture store Ikea, the hardware store The Home Depot, or some such place. Just give credit somewhere on your page where you got the image from, and it should be okay.
Best wishes,
Zoe Morosini
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29 Mar 2010
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lizsantiago
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i did understand, the thing is that victor wrote on his rules that we can �t use pictures from esl resources or esl web sites, fair use or no he doesn �t want that in his web site, and when we sign in we agree to his rules. So in my honest opinion we shouldn complain to somethings are clear enough when we hit enter to be part of the site, because as I said if we cant agree to the rules we can go. |
29 Mar 2010
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Mariethe House
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to lizsantiago I agree with zora when she says dictionaries and therefore pictionaries are not only esl resources! And to tell you the truth I often use them with my grand daughter whom many people know on this site ( Older members , I must say! ) to teach her how to speak French, her native language!
As for overtoned statements , I must say Liz that you are really gifted! However, I have always spoken my mind at this place, have always defended my opinions and always loved some aspects of this site ! However ( again) if something looks unfair to me, especially in the way some people treat others, i say it loud!! I would like to say that rules are never clear or straight enough to avoid discussion... As Ishorton says, copyright is very difficult to define !
And don �t be unhappy if people here are trying to find a right definition to help others.
And please stop saying that I may go ...This is not very elegant!
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29 Mar 2010
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