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ESL forum > Ask for help > HELP PLEASE    

HELP PLEASE





almaz
United Kingdom

And for your further delectation and illumination, here are a couple more pieces on the adverb �slow �: 


18 Mar 2015     



cunliffe
United Kingdom

Hi Alex, we are only having this debate because of a few examples where it seems natural to use the adjectival form. I do think though that if you extended that - for example, �Peter learns slow �.... �Geoffrey walks quick � alarm bells would start ringing... There are conventions and there is a reason for that.

18 Mar 2015     



almaz
United Kingdom

So, we finally agree that �slow � is also an adverb.

18 Mar 2015     



almaz
United Kingdom

It �s not just a "few examples". Here �s some more evidence - this time from Stan Carey at Macmillan. 


Note his final sentence: "When you place stock in linguistic superstition instead of real grammar, it�s easy to go wrong."

18 Mar 2015     



Jayho
Australia

 I learned a lot from this - thanks.

 

Here�s another one for you:
 
 
 
 
 
 
Cheers
 
Jayho 

18 Mar 2015     



alien boy
Japan

Thanks for your links, Alex.

Usage Discussion of SLOW

Some commentators claim that careful writers avoid the adverb slow, in spite of the fact that it has had over four centuries of usage <have a continent forbearance till the speed of his rage goes slower — Shakespeare>. In actual practice, slow and slowly are not used in quite the same way. Slow is almost always used with verbs that denote movement or action, and it regularly follows the verb it modifies <beans…are best cooked long and slow — Louise Prothro>. Slowly is used before the verb <a sense of outrage, which slowly changed to shame — Paul Horgan> and with participial adjectives <a slowly dawning awareness…of the problem — American Labor>. Slowly is used after verbs where slow might also be used <burn slow or slowly> and after verbs where slow would be unidiomatic <the leadership turned slowly toward bombing as a means of striking back — David Halberstam>.


Examples of SLOW

  1. My computer is working slow.
  2. <you need to go slow with this experiment, or you �ll make mistakes


Like your cartoon Jayho :)
 
Have a good day everyone! 

19 Mar 2015     



cunliffe
United Kingdom

You �re quoting Shakespeare to prove your point guys, but he shuffled (either slowly or quickly) off this mortal coil a while ago.All these examples are not natural utterances. �Cook the beans long and slow �.  No!   �Cook the beans slowly. � 
 
�You need to go slow with this experiment � does not sound natural at all. �You need to take this experiment slowly � is what would be said. Although this is a set phrase �nice and slow �.  I am not that interested in labels, I just wanted to point out what is normally said. 
 
Also, �My computer is working slow � - what language is that???  

19 Mar 2015     



almaz
United Kingdom

It �s English, Lynne. It might not be your English, but it �s definitely English. Dammit, all the evidence is there before you and you still reject it. 
 
Cop for this then (it �s from John McIntyre, but it describes exactly how I feel):
 

What follows are some of the standard peevish arguments, each with a riposte.

Number 1: It �s a rule.

Thoreau wrote, "Any fool can make a rule, and every fool will mind it." And not all things that people call rules are in fact rules. It �s useful to observe distinctions between rules and conventions. And further, many of these supposed rules have been manufactured out of whole cloth, like the journalistic over/more than superstition that even the Associated Press Stylebook has abandoned.

Number 2: The usage is incorrect.

Usually this means that the usage is not generally accepted in standard written English. But standard written English is only one dialect of the language. You probably don �t speak to your spouse, your child, or your pet exclusively in standard written English (unless you are an utter prat). Conversational and colloquial English are legitimate variants of the language. African-American vernacular English (commonly called "black English") is a dialect with a distinctive vocabulary and grammar; it is not erroneous English.

Number 3: You �re saying that anything goes.

This is the most familiar straw man argument. Nobody is saying that. What we are saying is that English has various registers and dialects, and that what is appropriate in one may not work in another. And while yes, people do make errors in English usage, many things that are called errors have been exploded as superstitions.

What we are saying is that empirical evidence, the evidence accumulated by linguists and lexicographers of how people actually speak and write (including the work of reputable authors) is a better indicator of the actual rules and conventions of English, of good, respectable English, than a miscellaneous collection of schoolroom superstitions.

Number 4: You �re using standard written English, aren �t you? Hypocrite.

It �s no surprise that editors, linguists, and lexicographers writing for publication use standard written English, the dialect most commonly appropriate for the intended audience and the publication. To say that African-American vernacular English is a legitimate dialect of the language, for example, does not mean that one is thereby compelled to use it.

Number 5: It �s not what I was taught

Some misguided or oversimplified advice you were given in the fifth grade may have been adequate for that time, but you �re all grown up now and should be able to wield the language with adult sophistication.

Number 6. You �re degrading the language.

There is no reason to think that English is on the decline. It �s true that we can no longer read Chaucer without extensive glosses, and that is increasingly the case with Shakespeare, but that hardly means that contemporary English is degenerate. And no, young people �s slang and text messaging are not harbingers of a time when we will communicate exclusively in grunts and whistles.

Number 7. I don �t like that word/phrase/usage/construction.

At last a point on which we can agree. It �s your language, too. You don �t like that word/phrase/usage/construction? Don �t use it.

What you don �t get to do is pretend that your individual aesthetic preference is a law of the language binding on all users.

 
 
 

19 Mar 2015     



cunliffe
United Kingdom

Hi Alex, guess this is just you and me now. If you re-read my comments, I am confident you will see that I am far from the grammar bigot you seem to have assumed I am. You are tilting at windmills, not me. I �m not what you think. My word, my personal preferences aren �t binding on anybody! Why would they be? And I do accept that rarely some adjectives can be used as adverbs and if people use it, that is that. Mainly, though, it �s sloppiness. And to clart on about �flat adverbs �.... Does it matter if things have fancy labels? English moves and develops. Some developments you like; some grate - we are all human! On my personal hit list is �more+ er � as in �He is more cleverer than her. � I do hope this doesn�t drive you to apoplexy.
I will have a look at the link later.
Lynne  

20 Mar 2015     

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