|
ESL Forum:
Techniques and methods
in Language Teaching
Games, activities
and teaching ideas
Grammar and
Linguistics
Teaching material
Concerning
worksheets
Concerning
powerpoints
Concerning online
exercises
Make suggestions,
report errors
Ask for help
Message board
|
ESL forum >
Grammar and Linguistics > PASSIVE: I am looking for very specific verbs …
PASSIVE: I am looking for very specific verbs …
|
frenchfrog
|
PASSIVE: I am looking for very specific verbs …
|
|
Hi, everyone!
I know that when an active sentence has two objects (a direct object and an indirect object) it is possible to make two passive sentences.
Ex: Her boyfriend sent her a dozen roses for her birthday.
� A dozen roses were sent to her for her birthday.
� She was sent a dozen roses for her birthday.
But what about the following sentence? He bought her a fur coat.
There are two objects but I am almost sure you cannot say �She was bought a fur coat� (whereas �A fur coat was bought for her� is correct.)
My questions are:
1) Why can�t you say it? (I am not even sure there is an answer to that question!)
2) Are there other verbs like �buy� with 2 objects (direct and indirect) but only one passive sentence?
Thanks!
Frenchfrog |
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
|
Zora
|
Although it sounds funny you can say "She was bought a fur coat" but the sentence is almost "incomplete" - here you would need to say by whom, or even, when.
Example:
She was bought a fur coat for Christmas (by her family).
Also, it should be noted that that particular construction is not very frequent and it
sounds like something from an old Agitha Christie or Dickens book. I
believe the construction of the passive in that specific case is almost
archaic in nature...and therefore, while correct, is not used much today. Also, I�m sure there are other verbs that follow this rule but I am at a loss to say which ones they are at the moment. Sorry, French Frog.
|
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
frenchfrog
|
|
Thanks for your help, Zora! I was pretty sure �She was bought a fur coat� was not correct... I have never read or heard this type of sentence. But as you said / wrote!, this particular construction is not very frequent, almost archaic...
Frenchfrog |
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
goodnesses
|
Hi , frenchfrog
Very interesting grammar point.
We have already discussed exactly the same issue deeply if you remember but unfortunately that was in the old forum. We can�t access it now.
Well, I don�t think the problem is with the verb "buy" but rather because it is a sentence out of any context starting with a pronoun as subject (Active) and an indefinite object (a fur coat).
That is why the sentence sounds "incomplete" as Zora said and not incorrect.
I personally always payed a lot of attention when I gave the Ss independent sentences to turn into the passive. Especially sentences with pronouns as subjects.
Generally, we don�t mention the "doer" in the passive when he/she/it is obvious. But when we hear/read " She was bought a fur coat./A fur coat was bought to her." (I agree the second is worse), one of the two (if not three) question comes to mind:
1-Who bought her a fur coat? (=when we focus on the "doer")
2-Which fur coat was she bought? (=when we focus on the thing done "object")
3-When (eventually "where") was this? (this gives more details to the sentence meaning = more understandable)
To make it clear try the sentence as follows in the passive.
1-"Her boyfriend" bought her a fur coat.
2-He/Her boyfriend bought her "this" fur coat last week.
Any sentence like this with any verb would seem incomplete.
Try this one: They eat three apples.
Hope it does not make things more complicated.
|
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
Zora
|
So true goodnesses...
Also, I was thinking as I had some lunch... - left to think with food before me is always a good thing  .. and I came to the conclusion that part of the problem was also the tense the passive was used in since it�s not uncommon to hear:
Acme had bought all the shares in that company.
Or
The Company is being bought out... ( by Acme)
|
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
frenchfrog
|
|
I used pronouns to make it simpler. Adding a context does not really change anything (to me), I still think it is weird (and I even thought it was not correct) to say: "She was bought a fur coat by her boyfriend last week��. I really thought the problem came from the verb itself...
Zora, the two sentences you gave have only one object (and this �object� is ... an �object�, not a person)!! I am only referring to the sentences that have 2 objects (one direct, the other indirect)!!
|
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
Zora
|
I noticed... also I made a mistake in the first example too... my hands type slower than my brain thinks... forgive me...
My Spanish students also have problems with the passives, sometimes thinking things don�t sound correct and partly, I believe it is because the passive form isn�t used as commonly or as often in their language. Maybe, this is what is happening to you wih this... because quite honestly, your example "She was bought a fur coat by her boyfriend last week" sounds okay to me. It sounded weird without the object and the last week though.
|
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
frenchfrog
|
|
You are right! We could not have the French equivalent of "She was bought a fur coat...". The thing is I have heard / read similar sentences but usually it was with one of the following verbs: give, offer, grant... I can�t tell you why I find it weird with �buy�!!! I am not used to it!! Fortunately, it is not often said, but I really wanted to know if the sentence was correct. You told me it was correct and I trust you completely!! |
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
goodnesses
|
"You told me it was correct and I trust you completely!!"
I said (I don�t know for Zora) it is correct and that there is no problem with the verb "buy" but only from a grammatical point of view. The sentence as it is in the passive is a little "heavy" to understand.
The verb "buy" is a transitive verb and as any transitive verb it can be used in the passive as well as in the active.
I agree with Zora, the passive voice is to be used only when necessary not only in Spanish but in English too. When necessary means in three major cases; the "doer" is unknown, focus attention on the "thing done" rather than the "doer" and at last when we don�t want to mention (tell about) the "doer".
Frenchfrog, if you are emphasizing the form the passive your sentence is correct in one way or the other.
But if are dealing with form through meaningful "independent" sentences so your sentence won�t be suitable in one way or the other (2 objects).
As I said I generally avoid giving my Ss sentence with pronouns as subject or object to transform into the passive.
|
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
frenchfrog
|
|
I am sorry Goodnesses, but your explanations are a little confusing (especially the end of your last message)... I know the rules you are referring to... If you meant that a grammatically correct sentence is not necessarily meaningful, then I agree with you! |
3 Oct 2008
|
|
|
|
1
2
3
Next >
|
