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Message board > BURQQAS
BURQQAS
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goodnesses
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What do you mean by a human being should be free?
Must people be, live and behave like you like you in order to be free.
Have already seen and known about "Targgy" men you know those people living in the as nomads in the big Sahar in northern Africa (Algeria, Lybia, Mauritania)
I will tell.
The "men" not the women in these tribes live all their life completely covered head and body. They have had this way of clothing since thousands of years, a long time before they took up Islam and they still have it. A woman would never see a man�s face (I/we don�t know for her own husband�s. It�s private life, you know..).
And you had better not ask one of these men to uncover his face.
So, are these "men" for all that deprived of their right and freedom?
If you think so, why no one talks about it? Why aren�t their any NGOs to defend their right?
Simply, what is the notion of freedom and rights for you?
Should people all over the world apprehend freedom and human rights exactly the same way "you" do?
Don�t you think that imposing your notion of freedom is in itself a way of depriving others of this freedom especially freedom of choice?
PS: The women of these tribes don�t cover their faces.
I do not mention the hundreds of other cultures from Africa, Asia, Latin America, and even the North one.
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14 Oct 2008
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Mietz
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Olindalima - I�m partly with you, but torn, as stated above.
At uni we had a seminar where people talked about cultural differences. Part of that was a discussion about circumcision on women. There was a discussion which basically ended with me being the only one in the room (about 15 people) who said, that I�m totally against this. The others said things like it�s a different culture and we don�t know enough about it to judge... It made me feel pretty stupid. Then we watched a documentary about some African tribe and the women�s attitudes there. The message was along the lines stated above. When it showed a very close-up view of the procedure and I heard the woman scream I started to feel dizzy, left the room and collapsed (never happened before, never happened since). That�s why I said in my previous comment, that I�m torn. However tolerant I�d like to see myself, the thought of that documentary still makes me feel sick and I cannot bring myself to get a tolerant view on that. So I�m there with you on that one. I�m free enough to have the choice not to have that done to me.
I think there is a lot of social pressure for women to go through this. But then - as stated above and to come back to burqqas - I�m not all free in my choice of clothes etc. Freedom is a very big word. If you really have the freedom you are
talking about, you are a very lucky woman! (Hopefully you are...!)
So far I�ve learned, that my first impulse is to associate burqqas with "not funny" because of social implications (certainly influenced by the media in my case), but there are actually people who know what it means to wear one - who can find it "funny". Who am I to judge?
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14 Oct 2008
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manonski (f)
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Goodnesses,
I believe Olindalima means freedom of choice.
What�s a "prison" for someone might be "freedom" for another person. What�s junk for a man might be a treasure for another one. It all comes down to having the power of choosing yourself what is best for you.
Peace,
Manonski |
14 Oct 2008
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goodnesses
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Then, manonski (f)
Let�s let people live their life and stop trying imposing them our way of seeing thing.
No can tell if the woman in question wear that "Burqa" because it is imposed to them.
I have in my school women colleagues who wear the "Hidjab" and others who don�t but we are living and working together men and women in great harmony without any embarrassment.
I have in my classes young girls wearing that same "Hidjab" and many others who don�t. However, girls with or without "Hidjab" and boys are studying and having fun all together in the same class in the same school without any sensitiveness.
And don�t tell me about imposed ideas and rules because not many people in the world suffered from them as the Algerians did "and still do".
Long time before extremism a lot of Algerian women especially young girls used to wear the "Hayek" with many variations from one region to another. And believe me they were and still are proud of exhibiting it. My mother still wear it as my grand mothers did. But my sisters changed it with different styles of "Hidjab" and many of my nieces clothe the European way. European because we have a common history especially Spain and France.
So I think we (I feel very close to those who wear the "Burqa in many ways) don�t have to receive lessons from anyone neither about freedom of choice nor about how our religion and traditions should be.
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14 Oct 2008
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manonski (f)
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Far from me, Goodnesses, to want to teach you a lesson. I value your opinion and experience.I haven�t spent one day among your people so I don�t know what I�d be criticizing or commenting about. I�ll trust you when you say how things are done in your country.
I only want the freedom of making my own choices. If a woman chooses to wear whatever piece of clothing she wants, then it�s her choice.
Manonski
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14 Oct 2008
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goodnesses
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An addition.
I am strongly against associating the words "fun" , "funny" with some events or facts such as that member who considered discussing 9/11 as funny assignment. But, since we don�t really know if a certain tradition is a matter of complaining I don�t see any problem considering discussing its "when" and "why" and "how" as funny. There are many many amazing and funny historical facts in a lot of people�s traditions.
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14 Oct 2008
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Vickiii
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How many people actually read the story? Funny was rightly applied to it. It is a classic story of mischief turning to misfortune. There are many stories in all sorts of society where the main character does somethiing clever only to have the tables turned on them. I think it was an appropriate cultural story to share, it was an appropriate description. I am richer for having read the story.
Wow Manonski - that is an excellent description of Freedom!
Someone above made a fantastic point - are any of us really free with the social pressures that are applied to people everyday?
In my culture work is valued very highly. A women is free to choose if she will return to work after having a baby or stay at home and look after her baby. But society ensures she feels guilty which ever option she chooses!
I am currently learning all about a new culture, and trying to respect all of the social norms etc. Some days my upbringing has serious clashes with what is normal. I get so frustrated that I just want to scream. I have found the best way to cope is to accept differences - without buying into them. I remain true to myself, my values, my ethics, and my belief system while at the same time I have been changed forever (for the better) by the impact of this truly different and rich culture.
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14 Oct 2008
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Azza_20
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Hello guys,
its really interesting to read all of your comments..
Dear Olinda,
i will not argue with you because i think we will agree to disagree!!
Its obvious that we are not on the same page, I am unable to get my message across!
i read your post very well and i explained to you why did the author used the word "funny" to refer to the story.. and Vickii explained it better than me here :
"How many people actually read the story? Funny was rightly applied to it. It is a classic story of mischief turning to misfortune. There are many stories in all sorts of society where the main character does somethiing clever only to have the tables turned on them. I think it was an appropriate cultural story to share, it was an appropriate description. I am richer for having read the story."
However, I feel very sorry for the women of Afghanistan or any woman who is forced to do something against her own wish! I agree with you everyone has the right to choose whatever they want to do, whatever they want to wear (but at the same time they have to respect the culture they are living in)!
let me tell you one thing since ur stressing on freedom and freedom of choice!!
in my country we do have the freedom of choice we can cover up head to toe or have the choice of wearing the burqa or we can wear western/ European clothes!!
When my colleague Amna referred to women wearing unprudish clothing because the UAE is a conservative country and the local community here find it a bit �rude� to see women wearing mini skirts and or showing off their cleavage in public! At the same time, those women who choose to wear these type of clothing have the freedom to wear it! However, why can�t they accept the other women wish in covering their faces and refer to it as violation of women�s right! Yes it�s their right to CHOOSE to cover their face!! Isn�t this the essence of freedom after all!!
If women have the right to wear a �thong� (excuse my language) in public, why cant women have the right to wear a burqa or a face veil in public!
my final message why do we have to discriminate amongst each other just because we are different!! cant we all live in harmony and respect each other without having to accept each other beliefs!!
respecting other peoples way of living doesnt mean that you have to give up on ur own beliefs and embrace their way of living!!
this discussion can go on and on so i�d rather stop here.
and please accept my apology my only intention was to try and defend the use of burqaa by women in the UAE because it was said that this funny urban tale took place in the gulf region and nobody know for sure if its a true story or not!!
I am not trying to impose my beliefs or anything here, just trying to share with you my opinion.
Cheers
Azza |
14 Oct 2008
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