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ESL forum >
Message board > copyright images
copyright images
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cunliffe
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copyright images
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Hi all. A bit of a debate is raging at the moment among moderators about the use of copyrighted images. There is something called �fair use � which implies that teachers can use copyrighted images for classroom use - but does that mean we are OK to upload them here as part of our wss and ppts? I found this article helpful in clarifying that actually, this is not really clear - not straightforward at all! If that makes sense? Can anyone shed any more light on this?
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1 Mar 2014
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karagozian
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I agr�e with you That this is not quite clear. That �s why I never vote for or agaist because not able to make out which are a bit or absolutely fair or not |
1 Mar 2014
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ueslteacher
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Fair use cocept does allow and I quote , "teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use)" (NOTE BTW: FOR CLASSROOM USE) BUT the use has to be balanced by the following 4 factors:- the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
- the nature of the copyrighted work;
- the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
- the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
OOPS, just read the arguments in the link, Lynne, provided. Anyway, it�s one thing using copyrighted images for you students and it�s something different, to my mind, redistributing them on the Internet. It�s better to use images from sites that specifically state in their terms of use that they grant the permission to redistribute for educational purposes or from the public domain to be on the safe side. Anyway, it�s up to you to draw your own conclusions. I�m just here to get distracted ..........
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1 Mar 2014
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Peter Hardy
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I �m not a moderator, but if I was, I �d go for the "Better safe than sorry" option. When we make worksheets and PowerPoints for ourselves aka our students, we may use some copyrighted pictures, as described in the fair-use clause. It becomes a problem when we make our worksheets not just for ourselves, but rather to gather points on this site. (Yes, some just want to share, but the point system is still there.) Well, that is like bartering, and it becomes commercial! This may well be a grey area to some, but as said, we �d better be safe. After all, we �d be very, very sorry if this site had to close down due to some legal action. Is that worth the risk? Maybe we need to change our rules from �No watermarked� to No copyrighted pictures. Full stop. (Watermarked means copyrighted by the way!) Thus we simply avoid that grey area. My advice to all members is to put in the extra effort and find really free pictures. After all, there are still lots and lots of those around. Add to this all the benefits of avoiding the heartbreak of having WSs removed, and consequently the disappearance of some bickering on the forum, and of course less �work� for the moderators and whatever more. In conclusion, we are teachers. We sort off invented �going the extra mile�. We help or want our students to excel, so why don �t we do that ourselves? Cheers, Peter.
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1 Mar 2014
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Jayho
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It�s quite simple: Check the terms of use of the site and if in doubt, don�t use it.
For example,
2. Discovery allows uploading here (10 without written permission, 10+ with written permission)
As the article points out, stick to public domain clipart to stay safe. Clkr.com is an example. There are plenty of public domain sites around.
In regards to Fair Use, it�s sometimes ok to use copyrighted images under fair use rules (for educational purposes), as long as you follow those rules (they are different for each country). So, check your country�s rules and if in doubt don �t upload it here. The same applies when downloading. Everything I download from here needs to have the sites cited before my institution will print my classroom copies (as a result, I usually delete pictures/replace with public domain). We are required to follow the Australian rules in this particular site.
My advice: Check the terms of the site. If in doubt, don�t upload it.
For moderators, if in doubt, don�t vote. Don�t vote for removal purely because it has a copyright symbol. The above three examples all have copyright symbols but the terms of use clearly give us approval. Please check the terms of use.
Cheers
Jayho
P.S. Peter (hi!), we posted at the same time. I disagree regarding watermark and copyright being the same. A watermark is, yes, copyrighted and needs permission for use (usually via a purchase). Phillip Martin clip art is also copyrighted and has a URL embedded in the bottom of each image, yet the permission is granted on the website as well direct to members here. Banning all copyrighted pictures would mean no pictures, including images where permission for use is clear.
P.P.S. For a fun US copyright quiz click here. Press submit after each answer to see if you are correct. I scored 19/22. |
1 Mar 2014
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alien boy
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& just a little something extra that everyone on the site should be aware of... just because something has a Creative Commons license doesn�t mean you can use it in any way you wish, either.
The following site provides an excellent breakdown of the different types of Creative Commons licenses: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/
Just a few extra comments regarding�Fair Use�, copyright & watermarks:
- �Fair use� (or its equivalent terms) is a legal defense if someone sues you for breach of copyright, it is not an inherent right of an individual. Edit: statutory licenses as provided in Australia are not �fair use�, they are licenses as distinct from a legal defense.
- �Fair use� (or its equivalent terms) may not be valid in every country. For example, it is not a valid defense here in Japan, but there has been some discussion over recent years about introducing a framework similar to that of the USA.
- just because there isn�t a �copyright mark� doesn�t mean a copyright doesn�t exist. As soon as an original work is created, it is deemed to be copyrighted (according to the law in the USA).
- a watermark is not the copyright itself, but is a marker (or tag) used to identify ownership of the copyright or source tracking (i.e. it may help identify what permissions & conditions apply to your copyrighted use, e.g. no of times you can use an image). Edit 2: a watermark may or may not be visible, depending upon how it�s coded into a picture. Some watermarks can only be decoded by specific algorithms in software.
In case you�re wondering... I worked with Yellow Pages in Australia for a while, directly involved in contracting, publishing & copyright related projects after I studied IT, law & teaching.
Cheers,
AB
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1 Mar 2014
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sarguero
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Sometimes you find that wonderful picture for your worksheet and even don �t stop about the copyright issue, I mean, you are thinking about your pupils and the way they can use the worksheet.
The problem is when you are thinking about showing your work outside your school or only for the "points", then you have to switch on your alarms, because it can be a collective problem (we are an ESL community)
Many times the copyright issue comes from "I didn �t read the rules" or from new members and the need of points to download worksheets, then they upload worksheets than other members or moderators report against the forum rules. I think that is easy to earn your points on ESL, it �s only a question of creativity and testing your own worksheets with your students and not taking in mind how beautiful and colourful they are and how many points they will give to me. or, as other members said, it �s up to every teacher to rethink about their works and if they set to the forum rules, even more, I don �t think you need a hundred points to get nice worksheets from this forum, you have to give room to your own creations working hard in your classroom.
Suggestion: Is it possible to grant 5 points for new members as a "welcome" to the forum?. So they can download at least five free worksheets before they start with their own contributions.
All my support to the moderators, I know how difficult their task is. 
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2 Mar 2014
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cunliffe
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I agree with every word Peter Hardy wrote. I am a moderator but I don �t want to be checking copyrighted images for their terms of use every two minutes. If it �s got a copyright mark, leave it alone. It �s too risky. We all know about Phillip Martin and there were two other things there Jayho has mentioned that we can safely use.
In my opinion - and I don �t think this has been tested - �fair use � does not apply here. As Sophia puts in block capitals - it pertains to classroom use and this is not a classroom, this is a website. �Fair use � means you can effectively ignore copyright, which is fine on your classroom. So - how would it be if for example, I wanted to invoke �fair use � and I took an image from a colleague on iSLCollective, even though it says this (below). Do you think that would be fair?
Copyright License: This file is licensed by Mishqui under iSLCollective Copyright License (For personal or classroom use only. Uploading on other internet sharing platforms or any commercial use NOT PERMITTED. Share Alike.) |
2 Mar 2014
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alien boy
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Here are some interesting scenarios about copyright law & fair use in an academic setting
To cut directly to cunliffe�s opinion & testing �fair use � application here, I�d agree with her - it is not a valid defense/application. The main reason being there is no guarantee that any document or image here is going to be used exclusively for non-profit educational purposes. If the membership here were restricted such that everyone had to prove they were teachers & that everyone had to have logged IP addresses from their places of employment, with no other logins allowed, then there probably wouldn�t be as large a problem legally... but that�s not exactly user (or member) friendly!
So, Peter & Lynne, I also agree with your opinions!
Cheers,
AB
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2 Mar 2014
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maryse pey�
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Hi all,
I would like to add my humble opinion. As far as I �m concerned I am a teacher but exclusively for private tutoring. So my address is my personal address as my work addresses would be my students � ones, which are private too...
A very serious problem to share my own work or to download worksheets from here. I teach several languages from 3 years old to ... and sometimes I need particular topics I have not dealt with. ESL is here and it is very helpful.
I know that the problem raised here is essential but I am sure the most of you love teaching and how to teach without material ? I love drawing, like some of you, but have not always the time to draw what I would like to... So I think that if you are teachers thinking only to make your students improve you easily forget external constraint to think only to find the fitting material you need for your lessons. When I do my worksheets I mainly think to find free images fitting what I want to use, to share with you. I am happy when I can help. Saving time is not always easy. I spend a lot of time trying to find the best possible pictures and I have to cancel a lot when I discovered all the watermarked I thought not to be ! New search then.
I love my job, I DO love this site but I �m afraid that cheaters are not an endangered race ! More than that I DO hate polemics and if I write on this post it is because,like you, I can �t help sharing.
I beg your pardon if I hurt some of you, that �s not at all my purpose. My humble opinion is worth only a teacher �s opinion looking forward to keeping sharing her work.
Hugs to all.
Maryse. |
2 Mar 2014
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Jayho
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Sarguero - sorry, that doesn �t apply with me. Anything I send for printing for the classroom is scrutinised by a special section to make sure copyright is followed. And I sometimes have stuff rejected because I haven �t necessarily met the fair use requirements. I have to cite every source and they check it. Life is tough these days.
Lynne- If you don �t want to be "checking terms of use every two minutes" then is it really fair if you report or vote on printables reported for copyright issues (as opposed to watermarks)? You may well be punishing someone who hasn �t done anything wrong. There are many sites, in addition to the ones I listed , that can legitimately be used.
Fair Use doesn �t mean one can ignore copyright. It still has its conditions. No you can �t just take an image from a colleague on islcollective. That �s why you need to check. And that �s exactly why public domain is best, as has been pointed out on the forum many a time over the past few years. This debate is not new. Victor really should clarify as the site is US based and perhaps the US laws apply irrespective of who up/downloads.
BTW, five days ago you announced that you had quit moderation because you had better things to do. Welcome back to this daunting thankless task.
Cheers
Jayho
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2 Mar 2014
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