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Victor, thank you for your action in this matter. I have posted a link to your blog on my Facebook wall and on my commercial web site: www.sunshinecoastsigns.com.au.
When I heard about this, a discussion which became a very hot topic in the forum some time ago suddenly came to my mind. Some users (or ex-users now �?) were using material by other members on their blogs to make the worksheets more accesible to their students. I remember these teachers were called THIEVES both here and on their blogs (when I clicked on the links you provided to such blogs I could see how some members had left very sharp comments to these people) I did not give my opinion or comment on the issue at the time, but now that I have read about this Turkish editor making profit of other colleagues � hard work I feel the need to say that THIS is stealing, not what those teachers had done. Right, both made use of something which was not their own�s, but I see quite a big difference. I would say that the teachers using worksheets on their blogs just "borrowed without permission" just with the intention , I guess and hope, of saving time and improving their lessons; while this Yayincilik, or whatever his name is, is STEALING and the one who should be called a THIEF.
Having made this reflection, needless to say that you have all my support on this and that I will spread the word.
PS: Is there a Facebook group promoting this campaign I can join? If there is not one, I think it wouldn�t be a bad idea to create one...
Athinazz, here is one definition of Merriam Webster dictionary of the word "steal": to take surreptitiously or without permission.
If you post other people �s work without their permission like the teachers you are referring to were doing (or still are, who knows?) then, it IS stealing in my opinion. You don �t need to make a profit to steal.
I somehow predicted that most of you wouldn �t agree with me. Yes, it is true that taking something without permission=stealing. But I think that there are "degrees". I don �t know if there are still members publishing our worksheets elsewhere- probably yes-, but if I find any of my work published on a personal blog, aimed at a particular group of students who are asked to download the worksheet and work on it in class, I do not mind. I once saw my grammar chart on relatives in a colleague �s blog and I felt kind of proud. I thought that my work must not be that bad if other teachers make use of it. Besides, isn �t ESLPRINTABLES a community meant to SHARE material? If someone downloads a worksheet of mine, I assume that he/she is going to make use of it , and I can �t see the difference between these people making print outs for their students directly or uploading the work on a site to get them to print it. Times are changing and many teachers nowadays work with blogs as a virtual meeting point between them and their students. In fact, I am considering creating one because I feel kind of "out-of-date" compared to some of my colleagues!!
A different thing would be to see that someone else has signed one of my printables as their own �s. That would annoy me, but again, would there be anything I could do about it (legally speaking)? That �s the downside of internet, you are exposed to things like that. But what it is worse, really UNETHICAL and a crime is what this Yayincilik has done. Even though I assume that many of you won �t agree with what I �ve just said above, I guess that all of you do agree with me if I say that what this editor has done is much worse than what these teachers did on their blogs.
Sorry if have diverted the original post into a different issue, I hope not to be told off too much
I don�t understand �degrees� when talking about stealing. If the person doesn�t
get money from your work, can you
say that he�s �less thief� than a person who makes profit from it? A thief is a
thief, or would you say that someone is �more or less� pregnant?
Most of the members here would also be proud to see their work posted on
a blog for students to download, print and learn from. But they have to ask for permission first. If they don�t,
they are stealing.
Look at the definition: to steal � take or use without permission
So, if they ask for permission, they are not stealing, they are borrowing.
For me the line dividing legal from illegal is crystal clear:
You could not have said it more clearly. I totally agree with you dear Zailda.
@Athina77
Maybe you should read the rules of this site again:
The printables included in this website can be downloaded for personal use only. You are not allowed to use them for commercial purposes, nor to publish them by any means.
Whether you publish a worksheet in a blog or in a book, you are infringing the copyright of this website. If you ask the original author for permission, things are different. None of the people who published our work in their blogs asked for that permission.
It was not my intention to create a polemic discussion. But I can help giving my opinion again. If it is unconceivable to have degrees of stealing, let us then talk about the seriousness of the offence. Of course you cannot be more or less pregnant, as that is a state, not a quality or an action. But the action of stealing can be more or less serious. Do you get the same prison sentence when you steal an apple from the supermarket and when you steal millions of Euros from a bank? I hope not. So we can say that there exist degrees in the seriousness of the offence.
Going back to the eternal discussion about whether or not the teachers using our worksheet on their blogs are stealing or not, let me make use of your definitions:
WITH PERMISSION: BORROWING
WITHOUT PERMISSION: STEALING
Right, from the moment you upload a printable you are giving members permission for its downloading. So those people did what all of us do: downloading a worksheet. So according to the definitions, that is borrowing, not stealing . What they do with the work downloaded afterwards can be more or less ethical: if you make it available to your students by means of a blog, to me that is no problem at all. would it have been nice of them to ask for permission first? OK, fair enough. But I can �t see any reason why we should call them thieves. You could call them unthoughtful, even cheeky... But thief is a very serious accusation. On the contrary, if you make a compilation of hundreds of worksheets downloaded from here, claiming their autorship and on top of that, you make money from that you are doing plagiarism, you are a thief and you should be punished.
Hello Katiana, I think we sent our messages at the same time. Having read the rule you have posted, I think then that what these people did was to go against the rules and- in case you could identify them as members of this site- Victor should have suspended their account - I guess that is what he did. But, now I have the opportunity to "talk" to you let me ask you something:
As you are one of the members whose work has appeared both on blogs and the books commercialised by this editor. Which bothered you the most? If I were in your position I think I would consider this new issue much more serious than the blogs � story.
It �s not important whether I steal a loaf of bread or the whole grocery cart. If you take it without permission, you are a thief.
You want to compare the two situations, go ahead. I �ll grant you that the intentions were probably different but to say they did not steal is denying reality.
